Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sorry if I missed it in this long thread but are there actual numbers available that formulate how a government run insurance for all would work? Would the fact that profit is out of the equation and the newcomers to the program would be younger and healthier make it affordable for the consumer and the taxpayer?
Why doesn't congress make an effort to devise multiple plans running the gamut from single-payer to individual states running their own plans and everything in between. Then let the CBO have at it and choose the one with the best rating both medical and financial.
Medicare for all would not work. The reimbursement to doctors, hospitals, labs, medical ancillary services, etc. is so tiny that these entities must overcharge non-Medicare/Medicaid patients in order to break even.
This is one of the reasons why Obamacare is failing. Insurance companies are in the business of selling policies, collecting premiums and paying claims. They are not in the business of controlling costs. If claims go up, insurers just increase premiums.
I watched mr Charlie Rose show tonight. Had a famous economist type guy on. He said, in the entire world of the upper $ nations, it is the hardest for poor people to become middle class people in the USA. The rate of pay has gone considerably higher every where , but here. The USA is not capitalist. The corporations rule/lobby and make laws for the people. Point- if we were able to work and pay bills, the ins/ health care would be a non issue . People could pay their part, making it a more balanced market. We will never fix anything until get money out of politics... You picked a money guy... Won't fix anything the next 4, forget about it!
A referendum has just been put to the American people by the government. The question on the ballot is worded thusly:
"Would you support the expansion of medicare to cover all US citizens for all medically necessary treatment, paid for by payroll, and /or (EDIT) income taxes?"
Does the referendum clearly explain that each person would have to pay $140.00 each month with no exceptions? That only gets you hospitalization at 80% of the total cost. Anything extra and you PAY MORE & MORE, & MORE.
Most if not all persons on Medicare receive more, much more back from that program than they paid into. More so for those where spousal and survivor benefits are being paid from one single wage earner's record.
I'll agree to the most, but by no means is it all.
I've posted this example before...
Given: The Medicare tax has no cap.
A self-employed individual (business owner, 1099 contractor, etc.) pays the full 2.9% Medicare tax, which has no cap.
Such an individual with a career average annual income of $1,000,000 (not unusual for a business owner) pays Medicare tax for 35 years.
$1,000,000 ☓ 2.9% ☓ 35 = $1,015,000
Now let's look at what a middle class employee (who pays 1.45% Medicare tax, not the full 2.9%) with a 35 year annual average income of $55,000 would have paid:
$55,000 ☓ 1.45% ☓ 35 = $27,912.50
HUGE difference in what they've paid, to receive the exact same Medicare benefits, which is to pay monthly premiums, have a deductible and a 20% co-pay, and no prescription coverage unless supplemental policies are purchased at additional cost.
It's not my preferred system, because I don't think it could ever get passed here. Countries that have this also have mechanisms to ration health care in order to keep costs down. Americans aren't going to tolerate being told by the government when they can go to the doctor and which doctor they can see and which treatments they can pursue. The US is different from other countries. It's in the DNA of our country that Americans do not like being told what to do by the government.
If by miracle it got passed, I would support it. I just don't think it's realistic. A public option that you can buy into would be preferable.
This thread is an illustration how the right wing with the support of the insurance industry derailed single payer with the Clinton plan and with Obamacare. Lies and BS designed to appease one groups ideology and the others profits.
When will Americans stop being so stupid about this?
Agree. & we weren't always this way. Granted, here in the US, healthcare has always been more like 'wealthcare' as someone (perhaps you?) described in this very long thread. However, the American people, along with their government, sought to improve the various healthcare delivery systems for the common good of the Country & all of its people. The underlying thought process attempted to reconcile what made sense to the 'mind' with what made sense to the 'heart' & backed by the work of the 'hands'. Isn't that the definition of good health? When the mind, heart & hands are functional, & cooperatively working together to sustain a good life?
Also granted, we've always had the Horatio Alger type 'rags to riches' stories that supported folks from all walks of life to aim for something meaningful, for themselves, their families, communities, Country ...
I'll agree to the most, but by no means is it all.
I've posted this example before...
Given: The Medicare tax has no cap.
A self-employed individual (business owner, 1099 contractor, etc.) pays the full 2.9% Medicare tax, which has no cap.
Such an individual with a career average annual income of $1,000,000 (not unusual for a business owner) pays Medicare tax for 35 years.
$1,000,000 ☓ 2.9% ☓ 35 = $1,015,000
Now let's look at what a middle class employee (who pays 1.45% Medicare tax, not the full 2.9%) with a 35 year annual average income of $55,000 would have paid:
$55,000 ☓ 1.45% ☓ 35 = $27,912.50
HUGE difference in what they've paid, to receive the exact same Medicare benefits, which is to pay monthly premiums, have a deductible and a 20% co-pay, and no prescription coverage unless supplemental policies are purchased at additional cost.
The "career average annual income" you've used here is unusual for the majority of business owners in the US. GIGO.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
