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Old 07-31-2017, 02:48 PM
 
46,943 posts, read 25,964,420 times
Reputation: 29434

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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
The results in just about every industrialized nation in the world but the US say otherwise.
I think Roboteer just reasoned them out of existence.
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Old 07-31-2017, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,993 posts, read 3,731,537 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by dothetwist View Post
Medicare should be expanded to a universal single payer system for all Americans. This WILL happen, but not as long as the GOP owns the House and Senate.
Then I guess it's time we threw them all out so they can no longer stand in the way of the only viable option left.
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Old 07-31-2017, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,993 posts, read 3,731,537 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
I have not paid into Social Security, since I quit flipping burgers at age 16, and they stole it from me before I had a say.

The entire public employees of Galveston Texas, do not pay into Social Security.
I don't pay Medicare.
I can certainly opt out of going to the doctor for a nice cut on the hand. Why can I not stitch it up myself, or wrap it in paper towels and a bunch of duct tape tightly?
You need to be using that duct tape for something else.
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Old 07-31-2017, 03:09 PM
 
46,943 posts, read 25,964,420 times
Reputation: 29434
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18 View Post
What if the money they spent on their HC (that they already pay for) went into this system instead? What if there was no middle-man insurance company taking a cut off of the top?

Where would the collapse come in?
For the insurance companies, that would be the collapse.

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Old 07-31-2017, 03:23 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,477,951 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
I have some friends native to France who carry dual citizenship, they have nothing but good to say about their French healthcare and seem totally baffled that the US doesn't have a similar plan.
The tide is turning now. Just a few short months ago the mere mention of universal or single payer would have resulted in nothing but scorn and derision from Americans.

Here we are now with Americans themselves initiating the conversation and considering them without the typical silliness of 'socialism" and "death panels" usually trotted out in the first seconds.

There's hope for the discussion to gain impetus in a rational manner.
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Old 07-31-2017, 03:28 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,820,716 times
Reputation: 20030
OP, i am going to disagree with you on this to a point. it is true that the federal government cannot provide health insurance for everyone since their plans are all one size fits all, and that never works. medicare and medicaid are funded by the feds, but run by the states, which is why they are more successful.

and there in lies the answer. if you want government run health care, then do it at the state level since they are much closer to the people and their needs.
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Old 07-31-2017, 03:29 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,477,951 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
I have not paid into Social Security, since I quit flipping burgers at age 16, and they stole it from me before I had a say.

The entire public employees of Galveston Texas, do not pay into Social Security.
I don't pay Medicare.
I can certainly opt out of going to the doctor for a nice cut on the hand. Why can I not stitch it up myself, or wrap it in paper towels and a bunch of duct tape tightly?
The rest of the developed first world nations citizens just go to a professional trained specifically to deal with potentially life altering medical issues.

Uneducated and financially crippled third world citizens resort to duct tape through lack of choice.

But you carry on doing what's worked for you.........so far.
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Old 01-01-2018, 04:58 PM
 
Location: USA
4,747 posts, read 2,346,962 times
Reputation: 1293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
It is impossible for any government to provide a Health Plan that works (that is, that keeps more people happy than the free-market plans used to). It's simply the nature of government, and the nature of Health Care. They are just 100% incompatible with each other.

We've fond out for the last decade or so, that when Government is given the responsibility for the nation's health plans, it immediately starts getting pushed and shoved in many directions, all with little or no control. If the Plan isn't perfect (and no Plan is perfect), someone will go running to the press and scream that this group or that group isn't being "fairly treated" - whether it's women who don't get enough prenatal care, or old people who have chronic maladies, or young people who are healthy but still have to pay high Health Plan costs, or whatever the "cruel, heartless" problem is this week. And next week it will be something else. And with bureaucrats not having to directly pay for the decisions they make, their decisions will be randomly arrived at, randomly (if at all) enforced, and randomly changed later.

The problem is not Republicans, and it is not Democrats. The problem is ANYONE who thinks Big Government can take care of the country's health care industry, better than private people and companies doing it themselves by free choice. And there are plenty of those big-government pushers in both parties.

For the last eight years, those big-govt pushers have gotten hold of the reins of power, and have actually tried to implement their pet theories. And as a direct result, the Health Care industry is now in chaos.

Part of the problem this week, is the concern over major changes that may come soon from government. Well, that's because we made the mistake of giving govt the power to make those major changes in the first place.

Private people and companies cannot make sudden major changes in the country's Health Care system. Somebody might invent a new medicine that does wonderful things. Or a less expensive way to do MRIs that make the treatments more affordable. Or some other "revolutionary" breakthrough. But such changes will only be implemented relatively slowly, and only if people want them to happen - a process that takes time and gives room to reflect, test, and possibly change minds. And at best, affects only a small part of America's health care system even if it does get accepted.

Government is the only entity that can suddenly change the entire industry... and it often does so for questionable reasons or poor and dangerous motivations. Government is invariably the source of the poor decisions and chaos that results. And then people demand govt "do something about it"... which just results in even more chaos.

The problem isn't this party or that party running Health Care. The problem is GOVERNMENT running health care. Because that is something that government is simply incapable of doing, anywhere near as well that the free market can (however imperfect that is).
All members of congress and the president have a government provided health care plan. And you had better believe that that health plan WORKS.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:05 AM
 
2,642 posts, read 1,371,647 times
Reputation: 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
It is impossible for any government to provide a Health Plan that works (that is, that keeps more people happy than the free-market plans used to). It's simply the nature of government, and the nature of Health Care. They are just 100% incompatible with each other.

We've fond out for the last decade or so, that when Government is given the responsibility for the nation's health plans, it immediately starts getting pushed and shoved in many directions, all with little or no control. If the Plan isn't perfect (and no Plan is perfect), someone will go running to the press and scream that this group or that group isn't being "fairly treated" - whether it's women who don't get enough prenatal care, or old people who have chronic maladies, or young people who are healthy but still have to pay high Health Plan costs, or whatever the "cruel, heartless" problem is this week. And next week it will be something else. And with bureaucrats not having to directly pay for the decisions they make, their decisions will be randomly arrived at, randomly (if at all) enforced, and randomly changed later.

The problem is not Republicans, and it is not Democrats. The problem is ANYONE who thinks Big Government can take care of the country's health care industry, better than private people and companies doing it themselves by free choice. And there are plenty of those big-government pushers in both parties.

For the last eight years, those big-govt pushers have gotten hold of the reins of power, and have actually tried to implement their pet theories. And as a direct result, the Health Care industry is now in chaos.

Part of the problem this week, is the concern over major changes that may come soon from government. Well, that's because we made the mistake of giving govt the power to make those major changes in the first place.

Private people and companies cannot make sudden major changes in the country's Health Care system. Somebody might invent a new medicine that does wonderful things. Or a less expensive way to do MRIs that make the treatments more affordable. Or some other "revolutionary" breakthrough. But such changes will only be implemented relatively slowly, and only if people want them to happen - a process that takes time and gives room to reflect, test, and possibly change minds. And at best, affects only a small part of America's health care system even if it does get accepted.

Government is the only entity that can suddenly change the entire industry... and it often does so for questionable reasons or poor and dangerous motivations. Government is invariably the source of the poor decisions and chaos that results. And then people demand govt "do something about it"... which just results in even more chaos.

The problem isn't this party or that party running Health Care. The problem is GOVERNMENT running health care. Because that is something that government is simply incapable of doing, anywhere near as well that the free market can (however imperfect that is).
Never mind that every other first world country has been doing it for years.
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