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Does affirmative action really even happen anymore? When I was in high school, I didn't see any cases of "surprise" acceptances. All the people who got into Harvard had near perfect SATs, 4.0+ GPAs, trophies for this and that, etc. All the people who got into my school had about the same stats as I did. Didn't seem to matter if they where white black or blue.
In high performing high schools it won't matter much. It's when they start taking top kids from lesser performing high schools we get raised eyebrows, because those kids tend to have lower standardized test scores, and are more likely to be black or brown. But they are still graduating at the top of their class with test scores better than their peers so as far as the college is concerned the kid is qualified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassy Fae
Hopefully we can remind ourselves that life isn't an even playing field for all. Some of us get to have a high school education prior to college and some have that plus AP, involved parents, and various advantages. Others have something closer to an 8th grade education when starting uni. All present different challenges and it's a rare individual who can start so far behind and meet up with those blessed with privilege.
That's been my experience working in higher ed. It's not so much blacks and latinos struggling as it is kids who are underprepared because their high schools weren't as great as their many of their peers'. Most of those kids are of color, but it's not really because of color if that makes sense. Those kids can catch up but they need a lot of support through the transition.
The kids of color coming from strong schools are fine academically, it's the social adjustment that's brutal on them.
First they select a group of people who meet that school's minimum threshold for admittance, whatever that is. That's how you get a pool of "qualified applicants". It's just a bunch of people whose high school records/interests/personality traits suggest they'd be likely to graduate on time and not flunk out or transfer.
Then once that's done, the school can select a mix of people from that qualified pool. The law says racial diversity can be considered at that point, if the school wants to ensure a mix of student economic/racial/social/geographic backgrounds they can go right ahead. And since elite schools are keenly aware of their role in producing future leaders, they typically try to make sure they are promoting some social mobility.
The problem is that people think that higher scores = "more qualified", when past a certain point the scores are no longer as important - only as a tool to drive up numbers in rankings really - which is how a lot of Asians get screwed. For top schools Graduating at the top 5 or 10% of your class while perusing the most rigorous courseload available is what gets you in the qualified pool typically, as well as having standardized test scores somewhere in the upper percentiles or at least very high for your high school.
In any case, AA is going nowhere. But Asians do get used as test score inflators IMO so they might be able to force a change.
It's waffling in that they didn't flat-out hold that you can use racial quotas and discriminate based on race. But I see that I was mistaken: it wasn't Kennedy, it was O'Connor. Same difference.
Lots of people (usually the types who support affirmative action) tell us that we need to be more like the "rest of the developed world." Well, the rest of the developed world relies only on test scores for university admissions, as far as I know. I'm not sure why we alone are narrowly tailoring plus factors in order to increase diversity.
When you have more qualified applicants than positions you have to cut out applicants and decide who you are going to take. In some case cutting 90%. If you just take the top scoring you'll end up with mostly Asians and white. If it's 41% Asian and 57% white a lot of people would be unhappy with that.
Which gets back to what I was saying earlier:
If you are pro-AA you can give up your spot in schools and only use professionals who benefited from AA out on the streets to acquire your goods and services.
Me? I want to compete and I want to have access to the best providers of goods/services I can find.
You're the one who's whining about people wanting you to compete with everyone else, instead of having standards lowered for you. So I don't know where you think you have the room to call anyone else a whiner.
Nope...no whining here. You're the one upset because your laziness has been called out. Standards for me have always been higher due to my culture.
When you have more qualified applicants than positions you have to cut out applicants and decide who you are going to take. In some case cutting 90%. If you just take the top scoring you'll end up with mostly Asians and white. If it's 41% Asian and 57% white a lot of people would be unhappy with that.
The makeup of my undergrad was pretty much like that. That's why I say, does AA even happen anymore.
If you are pro-AA you can give up your spot in schools and only use professionals who benefited from AA out on the streets to acquire your goods and services.
Me? I want to compete and I want to have access to the best providers of goods/services I can find.
I get where you are coming from. I'm not for AA per se. I think it can be hard sometimes to determine what's best and not. Personally, I don't want to compete with foreigners brought into America. If I wanted to compete with foreigners I'd move to a foreign country. I'm perfectly happy with the best of the multi-generational native born. At some point competition becomes a rat race, grind and conflict.
Whites have been shouldering almost all of the affirmative action load and making room for diversity for 3 generations. It's been quiet a barrier.
You just recently posted misinformation and fake news in this thread. The DOJ was seeking lawyers to investigate on behalf of Asians claiming discrimination that Obama never acted on. That the Trump DOJ was investigating discrimination on behalf of whites was fake anti-Trump and anti-white news.
Which begs the question, what do Asians want and expect? They're already overrepresented in college. Whites lose seats to Hispanics and blacks who have lower scores and grades and whites are underrepresented. If Asians take a few more slots from whites, whites could even more justifiably in turn takes slots from others.
And why bring up legacy advantage when anyone can use it unless you're just against anything that benefits or doesn't harm white Americans?
Nope. White Americans have had affirmative action in this country since its inception. So the majority have become accustomed to life being easier for them due to their color.
I didn't post fake news. The OP posted the article and you're mad about it.
The legay admissons are not based on merit but guess some people are always looking for a handout...
The makeup of my undergrad was pretty much like that. That's why I say, does AA even happen anymore.
It depends on how multicultural and diverse the area and applicants are in part. I think AA certainly happens in government agencies and many corporations and is probably a more significant factor in some people's opportunities.
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