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Old 08-03-2017, 04:40 PM
 
79,902 posts, read 43,902,731 times
Reputation: 17184

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Obamacare was meant to be the first step towards single-payer. It was supposed to create single-payer for the working poor through Medicaid, but republican governors blocked the expansion. The expectation was that after we had universal coverage through the mandate, and single-payer for the working poor, universal single-payer would be an easier sell.

EDIT: it should be noted that the price increase in this article is due to insurance pulling out because of Trump threatening to stop payment. This price increase ball squarely on Trump's shoulders.
Insurance companies were pulling out of the mess long before Trump.
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,805 posts, read 14,868,691 times
Reputation: 16461
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
When everybody's rates go up, you can lay the blame squarely at the feet of the greed of the insurance executives and Wall Street.

When nobody can afford insurance any more we'll be ready for single payer.
Exactly, it is the greed.

Greed is why insurance companies are pulling out of ObamaCare because they are making to much money,
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:42 PM
 
30,186 posts, read 20,922,213 times
Reputation: 11829
But the fine will stay and the IRS will make trillions. That was the plan from the get go.
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,163,179 times
Reputation: 19952
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
And the death spiral for the load of crap called Obamacare continues!

Back to square one and start over...
Apparently not.

They've had 7 years and still haven't come up with a workable plan.

Who knew health care could be so complicated?
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:46 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 26,881,794 times
Reputation: 15644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Apparently not.

They've had 7 years and still haven't come up with a workable plan.

Who knew health care could be so complicated?
Nope, what I said had nothing at all to do with any political party or timeline. We are far from back to square one, Obamacare is still breathing although barely. When it's totally failed and there are no insurers to sell policies or prices so high nobody signs up for them then we'll be back at square one.

It needs to completely go down in flames first. Clear enough?
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,370,986 times
Reputation: 9616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Put the insurance vultures out of business. SINGLE PAYER NOW!

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/02/reut...-year-end.html
Health CARE costs continue to rise..

this is not just about insurance...btw insurance is not care

singlepayer??? you (if you pay taxes), cant afford it

and if you are meaning medicare for all...that's NOT singlepayer

many if not most conservatives/republicans would be all for singlepayer....if, if two questions could be answered

1. can you guarantee the level/quality of care...because we have seen the "Dept of Health horror clinics", and the all too many times we are reminded of the lack of quality from the VA

2. and the second, but probably most important question....How will we pay for it???

TRUE singplepayer...100% paid by the federal government, no copays, no deductibles.. to cover 323 million people will cost over 5.75-6.25 trillion for the first year, with each and every years the cost increasing with inflation

non-singlepayer "medicare for all", which is a 75/25 government insurance, which you not only have to buy supplemental insurance (or just pay the remainder out of pocket), but you also have copays will cost about 3.2 trillion

our current budget is about 3.5 trillion but our current revenue is about 3 trillion...about a half a trillion deficit.....of that 3.5 trillion dollar budget the federal government budgets about 1.2 trillion for mandatory health care (medicare,medicaid, va)

so where are you going to get the additional 2 to 5 trillion dollars to pay for some kind of singlepayer or medicare for all????

taxing the rich to death....well that will cover the first year...then what, when there are no more rich to tax.....

we have 323 million people here in the USA, yet less than 1/4 are tax payers

2. we (the taxpayer) cant afford any type of singlepayer or even medicare for all

singlepayer is NOT sustainable at any level when you are talking about 320 million patients, and less than 70 million taxpayers


they (the government) cant lower much..the best the government could do is lower some prescription medicines




how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark



how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????



how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????



how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even American



how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???



how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????



how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????



things are expensive

for example the average hospital uses a lot of electricity...about 500,000 a month...that's over 6 million dollars in electric costs yearly.....you are not going to cut that piece of overhead

when you go to the local doctor and pay him/her 100..its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS


they have lots of overhead costs:
rent/lease/mortgage
property taxes
electric costs
equipment costs(and many pieces of equipment are not even made here)
cleaning costs
supply costs
personnel costs
etc


singlepayer will not control these costs




medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)




want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-22,000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-68,000 in the usa
FranceRegistered Nurse (RN) Salary (France) .....average 22,000 euro (about 25,000 dollars us)
USARegistered Nurse (RN), Emergency Room Salary ....average 63,000 dollars
Professional Nurse Average Salary Income - International Comparison


so what is it that singlepayer supporters 'think' or 'believe' we will be able to negotiate ??? medicines maybe....salaries not likely...other supply costs not likely.....property taxes and overhead...not a chance


UHC (medicare for all) which is not a singlplayer , or actual singlepayer would cost between 3.5 TRILLION and 6.5 trillion ANNUALLY.....and will INCREASE everyyear...the taxpayers cant afford that
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,370,986 times
Reputation: 9616
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Obamacare was meant to be the first step towards single-payer. It was supposed to create single-payer for the working poor through Medicaid, but republican governors blocked the expansion. The expectation was that after we had universal coverage through the mandate, and single-payer for the working poor, universal single-payer would be an easier sell.

EDIT: it should be noted that the price increase in this article is due to insurance pulling out because of Trump threatening to stop payment. This price increase ball squarely on Trump's shoulders.
so expanding Medicaid and nedicare (the trillion dollar gorilla in the room), putting it on the taxpayers, WHILE MANDATING they cover themselves by paying for their own private insurance is supposed to be a good thing for the middleclass???

medicare and Medicaid is over a trillion just at the federal level currently
let's look at the increases medicare has cost:
in 2000 medicare was 216 billion
in 2008 medicare was 456 billion
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion

Medicaid:
2000.....117 billion
2008.....201 billion
2016.....368 billion

what is even more interesting is what the predicted outlays will be in the future
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion
prediction for 2020....963 billion
prediction for 2026....1.383 Trillion

actual Medicaid 2016.....368 billion
prediction for 2020....450 billion
prediction for 2026....616 Billion

so the prediction is medicare and Medicaid is expected to be over 2 trillion dollars is less than 9 years
that's just the GOVERNMENT costs of Medicare and Medicaid... and medicare/Medicaid covers less than 1/4 of our population.. on top of that you have the VA..and then what the PEOPLE are already paying for private insurance
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,495 posts, read 36,991,984 times
Reputation: 13965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
they do so because of government regulations that put them in that position.
take away the insurance companies and replace them with government regulation and a singler payer government system and you get the EXACT SAME RESULT.


fighting left and right on this is stupid. Insurance schemes run by private companies OR by government bureaucrats are just insurance schemes that leave real people in the lurch.
Why don't you find the truth by comparing with an open mind all aspects of a universal health care plan, such as care, cost etc. with what you have now? There are lots to choose from, and I suspect that you will learn something....What do you have to lose?
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
3,909 posts, read 2,103,676 times
Reputation: 1644
Thank's Trump!!!
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:36 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 26,881,794 times
Reputation: 15644
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Why don't you find the truth by comparing with an open mind all aspects of a universal health care plan, such as care, cost etc. with what you have now? There are lots to choose from, and I suspect that you will learn something....What do you have to lose?
We already know Canadian healthcare sucks and they're the closest UHC to compare to. Why the hell would we want that?
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