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This is all a crock. The MARKET makes wages higher, not unions. Never did, never will. Republicans want market based, fair wages. It is well known that people work harder, smarter, and better when they feel they are fairly compensated. Let the market set the wages. NOBODY is FORCED to take a job they don't want because it pays less. Either get the skills to make yourself more valuable in the workplace, or shut up.
You obviously didn't read my earlier thread about some job markets in the U.S.
What you say is great in an ideal world, but sadly, this isn't.
I'm seeing a lot of ignorant stereotypes in your post.
There is nothing stopping a union member from negotiating higher wages or benefits from themselves. The negotiated rate is a minimum wage not a maximum wage.
Now typically in our union the difference in pay between the journeyman and the foreman is just a couple dollars, and so often times an employer will simply make their best guys a foreman, or maybe give them a company truck, or both. If they're really awesome they can make them a general foreman, which is even more money.
I at one time made about $9 dollars over my wage minimum. Not bad I'd say.
You can tell that to my wife who is in a teacher's union. She is very good at her job but she is on a pay scale based on years of experience, level of schooling, etc. She makes the exact same as the lazy teacher down the hall.
I was also in a union, albeit while in high school working a minimum wage job. I worked hard, came in early, stayed late, picked up hours, etc. I asked to be trained on registers since I've always been good at math and numbers. Being a computer guy, I was able to fix some issues with the main computer in the office. If it was busy, i didn't take my break or would volunteer to come back from lunch early. I actually got talked to by one of the senior guy who was there for years saying I had to stop doing that because 'i was making everyone look bad'. i couldn't believe it. I am working to distinguish myself to get more hours and a bigger paycheck and 'i am making other workers look bad'. Yes I know that me getting more hours will be at the expense of others. Yes, I know that me doing the job equivalent of 2 people puts someone else out but isn't that what competition and capitalism is all about? That was my introduction to Unions but like I said, i still think it has a purpose and they can do good things.
This is all a crock. The MARKET makes wages higher, not unions. Never did, never will. Republicans want market based, fair wages. It is well known that people work harder, smarter, and better when they feel they are fairly compensated. Let the market set the wages. NOBODY is FORCED to take a job they don't want because it pays less. Either get the skills to make yourself more valuable in the workplace, or shut up.
I disagree, republicans want to make sure that employers have the freedom to pay as little as possible. Wage collusion is a big problem whether you want to admit it or not, and unions are the best way to ensure that corporations don't play those kind of games
The role of unions today is unchanged from what it has historically been. The value however seems to have changed dramatically. The proof in that is the fact that union participation is extremely low.
There is zero reason for a public union. FDR saw public unions as utterly wrong. He was right on that point. You cannot have the government negotiating with itself, where one part of the government is beholding to the other for its political contributions.
How does anyone get to the people in these states that continue to defeat themselves by pushing the "right to work madness".. One should truly go back and learn some things from people they detested and ignored in the past. Such as MLK, and LBJ during the time when both Civil Rights was being promoted and LBJ's war on poverty... Those things are as relevant today as they were back then.
If people in America could get over "ENVY AND RESENTMENT" the same which feeds, bias, bigotry and racism... We'd be on a progressive path to set new markers for the nature of achievements the world could see.
But American is behind the Nordic Region and Germany in these regards, where as these countries don't have so much of a racism issue to deal with. They can focus on "working and building so "everyone can prosper"... Whereas, American blocks itself at every turn with its ignorance of racism, trying to hold some down, push some down and ignore and negate some... it takes away from the whole... and the same ones who support the hold down, push down and ignore and negate mentality, bring the same despair to themselves, and they blind themselves from such truth.
If we don't wake up... "The Envy, Resentment and Cycle of Old Time Hate" will continue to send us in a downward spiral.
All Blood is "Red" and a Man is a man is a man, regardless of what color his skin is, and a Woman is a woman is a woman, regardless what color her skin it.
That's truly how simple it is.... and if you "whom ever you are that is racist or bigoted" ... its not like you'd be asking which color skin a person has, if you needed a blood transfusion and the blood was made available.
It's a fact, that blood transfusion will not make your white skin black, nor will it make a black persons skin white. but it certainly will help one retain "life" that they may continue living.
All the craziness about butt size, breast size and penis size... means absolutely nothing... they all serve the function they were designed to serve... a big butt or a small butt is not what determines if you can sustain a relations, and certainly breast size and penis size is not going to determine if one can sustain making a relationship work... it comes down to the simplicity of one of the greatest gifts God Gave to Mankind.... "that's the ability to Communicate and a Mind Capable of Caring".... and that is simple too... the more you care the More you Share, and the more you share, the more you care...
We should think more about the basics that are so simple... then we could build and understand the value of "working together" and then it might be understanding, as to the overall value of "unions"... it means. one or more working together to achieve objectives that benefit the whole.
I don't care... if a new hire gets union scale... I'm thankful that I get it as well. Why wish upon other to deny others, what you worked to gain, for the benefit of any and all. Unions even put in a Tiered system, to appease people who held such contempt... and people still whined and cried about the Union.... because most did not understand the value of what a Union is, and what it can and cannot do.
If you were an arse-hole... it was not the Union's job to protect you in continuing to be an arse-hole who created conflict. Nor was the Union's job to stop you from being reprimanded when you did things wrong. It actually helped you have a second chance... to make correction and demonstrate it within a reasonable time frame.
people got hung up on the Union Leadership and what they may or may not do with their personal lives. Instead of understanding that the point of the Union was to Negotiate on your behalf to reach working solutions with the company, regarding your employment, benefit and treatments as well as the standards that were beneficial to the employee safety and the companies performance and safe and efficient work processes.
A state can have "right to work" and private sector unions at the same time. Look at Nevada, which has a very healthy labor movement, especially in Las Vegas, yet is a "right to work" state.
You can tell that to my wife who is in a teacher's union. She is very good at her job but she is on a pay scale based on years of experience, level of schooling, etc. She makes the exact same as the lazy teacher down the hall.
I was also in a union, albeit while in high school working a minimum wage job. I worked hard, came in early, stayed late, picked up hours, etc. I asked to be trained on registers since I've always been good at math and numbers. Being a computer guy, I was able to fix some issues with the main computer in the office. If it was busy, i didn't take my break or would volunteer to come back from lunch early. I actually got talked to by one of the senior guy who was there for years saying I had to stop doing that because 'i was making everyone look bad'. i couldn't believe it. I am working to distinguish myself to get more hours and a bigger paycheck and 'i am making other workers look bad'. Yes I know that me getting more hours will be at the expense of others. Yes, I know that me doing the job equivalent of 2 people puts someone else out but isn't that what competition and capitalism is all about? That was my introduction to Unions but like I said, i still think it has a purpose and they can do good things.
My wife is in the creative field, and in order to work at a specific media company she was required to join a union at around $1,000/year. So worked part-time so this was a significant amount. As a freelancer she absolutely had ZERO benefit from being part of the union.
The role of unions today is unchanged from what it has historically been. The value however seems to have changed dramatically. The proof in that is the fact that union participation is extremely low.
There is zero reason for a public union. FDR saw public unions as utterly wrong. He was right on that point. You cannot have the government negotiating with itself, where one part of the government is beholding to the other for its political contributions.
Totally agree. It is a huge conflict of interest, and a travesty to the public/taxpayers.
I'm sure the Nissan factory in the South was brought up in this thread, but it shows that you don't need a union to provide good jobs and benefits. The workers voted down the union 2:1.
In NYS the public unions are working hard every day to keep on destroying the State for the sake of the "workers". I mean the MTA employees are using 100 year old union rules: something like engineers need to be paid double if they operate a diesel and electric train at the same day (something to that extend). And they refuse to negotiate. Those type of unions should be shutdown immediately.
The reason why car companies give workers any benefits at all is because the UAW is out there watching.
Your second paragraph has FOX news false news written all over it. When you say "something to that extent", be sure to have your facts straight. Your hostility toward public unions and their practices come right out of the right wing play book. I've seen this hostility toward public unions far too often for it to be by chance.
Here are the facts about public unions in New York State. Our contract after the great recession was a four year contract with no raises for three years and a 2% raise in the last year. The retirement tier system has gone through two changes in the last ten years. Each change less generous than the prior change. Less generous means give backs. We are in the same boat as the rest of you.
Watch out for right wing soldiers like EXM. They want to destroy the last powerful unions that do protect workers. People who attack unions have a long term goal of leaving workers in disarray. The framework of union contracts provide a blue print that notifies management we will bend this far and no further.
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