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I pulled this from another thread because it's not quite a "Great Debates" response and it runs the risk of thread drift. But why not workfare? Why not get people in the habit of working rather than being available for further reproduction or other counterproductive activity?
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Originally Posted by rodentraiser
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Originally Posted by otterhere
No one said anyone "hated" anyone; typical emotional response.
As I said in my original post, workfare would help EVERYONE, including the poor themselves.
How? As I've pointed out many times, to keep the rent of an average apartment of $1000/month at only 30% of your income, you'd need an hourly wage of over $20/hour. If people are only going to be making $7.50 to $15 an hour (and we know that many apartments are well over $1000/month), how are they supposed to pay for a place to live, pay for their utilities, buy food and clothes, and send their kids to school to get an education?
Because unless you're advocating paying - yes paying, because people don't teach for free - for trade schools and training, the only jobs these poor people can take will be the low paying minimum wage ones. And oh, by the way, what happens to the kids when you force their moms to work full time? Let me guess, the kids stay at home until nosy neighbor reports them, mom goes to jail for child endangerment, and the kids go into foster care to join the 300,000 kids already there. And the tax payer pays for both of those situations.
How does that help anyone?
It brings people into the working world and gives them a chance to make more, that's how. And there's so much that could be done with workfare.
Today I parked my car at the Hartsdale train station and walked 1/3 of a mile to play tennis. The grass next to the train station was loaded with garbage and the park on the right side of the Bronx River Parkway next to the tennis courts was only a little better. We're not collecting garbage because we can't "afford to." Why not get some people on welfare to help?
And if necessary, under these conditions provide child care. The courthouse in White Plains has child care available for court employees. Why not expand it a bit.
I'm fine with it, provided, like you said, child care is available. The problem is many welfare recipients already work, but make minimum wage or close to it which keeps them at poverty level. So I'd wave the requirement for any parent cutrently working full-time, or in school at least part-time.
I like this idea, but there are some things to think about. How do we make sure employers don't simply utilize subsidized labor to undercut the people already working/competing for jobs? Do you suggest we allow the government to create jobs for these folks to do?
Handing money to people for not having a job encourages sloth and laziness. Teaching them that there is a better way enables them to achieve greater things in the future. But I wouldn't want some government program to screw up the free market. We have too much distortion as it is.
"Workfare" was advocated in NY about 50+ years ago and the left wingers just about soiled their drawers.
When FDR set up WPA, CCC, and other programs, He was lauded as a great humanitarian.
People need incentives to get off their collective butts.
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Originally Posted by Natural510
I'm fine with it, provided, like you said, child care is available. The problem is many welfare recipients already work, but make minimum wage or close to it which keeps them at poverty level. So I'd wave the requirement for any parent cutrently working full-time, or in school at least part-time.
I think that when the underclass gets into a pattern of non-work, sexual adventures at best or serious crime at worst becomes the break from boredom on the the hot, leisureless streets. Does anyone wonder why they breed like rabbits; because they have nothing else to do. The cycle needs to stop and just giving them money won't help.
Call people like us racist but we're paying and suffering other consequences. We have a dog in the hunt.
I pulled this from another thread because it's not quite a "Great Debates" response and it runs the risk of thread drift. But why not workfare? Why not get people in the habit of working rather than being available for further reproduction or other counterproductive activity?It brings people into the working world and gives them a chance to make more, that's how. And there's so much that could be done with workfare.
Today I parked my car at the Hartsdale train station and walked 1/3 of a mile to play tennis. The grass next to the train station was loaded with garbage and the park on the right side of the Bronx River Parkway next to the tennis courts was only a little better. We're not collecting garbage because we can't "afford to." Why not get some people on welfare to help?
And if necessary, under these conditions provide child care. The courthouse in White Plains has child care available for court employees. Why not expand it a bit.
Because public employee unions believe they are 'entitled' to those (paying) jobs?
I pulled this from another thread because it's not quite a "Great Debates" response and it runs the risk of thread drift. But why not workfare? Why not get people in the habit of working rather than being available for further reproduction or other counterproductive activity?It brings people into the working world and gives them a chance to make more, that's how. And there's so much that could be done with workfare.
Today I parked my car at the Hartsdale train station and walked 1/3 of a mile to play tennis. The grass next to the train station was loaded with garbage and the park on the right side of the Bronx River Parkway next to the tennis courts was only a little better. We're not collecting garbage because we can't "afford to." Why not get some people on welfare to help?
And if necessary, under these conditions provide child care. The courthouse in White Plains has child care available for court employees. Why not expand it a bit.
Apparently you are missing something.
The "workfare" is already in place, as in good ole Soviet Union)))
I think that when the underclass gets into a pattern of non-work, sexual adventures at best or serious crime at worst becomes the break from boredom on the the hot, leisureless streets. Does anyone wonder why they breed like rabbits; because they have nothing else to do. The cycle needs to stop and just giving them money won't help.
Call people like us racist but we're paying and suffering other consequences. We have a dog in the hunt.
I agree to a certain extent, but you have to acknowledge not everyone on welfare is sitting around watching TV and smoking cigarettes all day long (though many of them do). You're right, people get accustomed to laziness and the longer they are out of work, the more it becomes normalized to them. Still, considerations have to be made for the working poor who use welfare/food stamps as a lifeline, as well as those collecting it temporarily while in school.
There is a sorely missing group of parties here the construction unions, the governmental officials in charge of "poverty" programs and "community organizers.
While Tappan Zee litigation continues relating to "the wage difference between carpenters and dock builders" where "(c)arpenters are paid $70.11 per hour, compared with dock builders that make $92.47 per hour" no consideration is given to a "workfare" program where benefits recipients would apprentice and be paid, say, $22 an hour to learn a trade and $40-$45 per our when working at these trades. The cost numbers of $20 billion to build these tunnels and related train station improvements is eye-popping and ultimately unfeasible. No matter how badly needed nothing is going to get built at those figures.
There are other projects just as urgently needed. New York needs at least one more water tunnel, so the existing three water tunnels can be shut down seriatim and rebuilt. Again labor costs are prohibitive. Other gold-plating on these projects needs to be removed, but all must participate. These projects must happen and the costs must be made bearable.
The point of that thread, on which I was the OP, was that sorely needed projects never get done at those labor rates.
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