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"Should a business be able to deny service to a customer if the request conflicts with the owner’s religious beliefs?"
The question comes from the quiz at isidewith.com
I'm having trouble deciding where I stand on the issue. On one hand, I'm not religious, so my gut reaction is to say that no one should be able to use religion to refuse service to anyone. On the other hand, I'm a strong believer in the Constitution and Bill Of Rights, and believe that the government should not interfere in an individual's right to exercise his or her religious beliefs.
I'd be interested in hearing some of your opinions.
The tenets of the 1st are freedom of religion the government shall not prohibit or abridge it. So from a constitutional perspective, religion usurps customers.
This business has the right to refuse service for any reason. <<<remember those signs?
I got refused service for having bare feet once.
The bottom line: they have the right to refuse service for religious reasons. I would hope they'd have the civility to be very careful how they live or die on that hill.
How do you know the emt would treat the person? Why are their religious beliefs not as protected as the bakers?
As a lIcensed health care provider the EMT has an ethical obligation to provide basic service and do no harm. Regardless of the usual conditions of age, sex, etc.
It seems stupid to me to turn away legal business. The issue isn't the customer, though, because how many business owners know that much about a customer. Example: Suppose I wanted a birthday cake made in the shape of a Sig Sauer P220 that says "Happy Birthday, Jackie." The cake makers tell me they refuse to do it because they are big proponents of gun control. Me, the actual customer, neither owns a gun nor is a member of the NRA. I'm just buying it for my friend's surprise birthday party. He is a gun enthusiast and I think it's a cute idea for a cake. If he collected Boston Red Sox MLB memorabilia, I would have asked for a Red Sox cap cake. Should I be denied service if the cake maker is a long time NY Yankees season ticket holder who hates the Red Sox? Why are they denying me service? Where does it end? They have now officially lost me as a customer.
It seems stupid to me to turn away legal business. The issue isn't the customer, though, because how many business owners know that much about a customer. Example: Suppose I wanted a birthday cake made in the shape of a Sig Sauer P220 that says "Happy Birthday, Jackie." The cake makers tell me they refuse to do it because they are big proponents of gun control. Me, the actual customer, neither owns a gun nor is a member of the NRA. I'm just buying it for my friend's surprise birthday party. He is a gun enthusiast and I think it's a cute idea for a cake. If he collected Boston Red Sox MLB memorabilia, I would have asked for a Red Sox cap cake. Should I be denied service if the cake maker is a long time NY Yankees season ticket holder who hates the Red Sox? Why are they denying me service? Where does it end? They have now officially lost me as a customer.
Do you really need a cake which contains the Boston Red Socks??? Or can you as a customer, also bend as the owner does?
Why would an owner of a business be compelled to do anything? There is a seller and buyer. Both need to compromise sometimes. We do it daily. Shouldn't be any different. Except the owner has the edge of course since he actually owns his business so can do what he wants with it. Yet 90% of the time, HE WONT deny obtaining business since that is the purpose he is in business.
Well of course it's not the moral equivalent. That's not really my point.
Religious freedom, which I state earlier, is a protected right. Should I ask anyone to violate their personal religious beliefs, they should have the right to refuse.
There's always a limit, as I said earlier. A doctor can't say "I think homosexuality is an abomination" and refuse treatment of a gay person in that respect. I actually don't believe any service can be entirely refused based on small details like that. However, in specific circumstances, like a gay wedding, I think a person can justly point to religious objections. This because the ground for refusing services is less rooted in the person and more so in a specific 'thing.'
An easy example I often use when talking about the bakery issue, I think a baker should be expected to sell french bread to any gay person who enters. Should that same baker be asked to bake them a wedding cake for their wedding reception, I think then they may site religious objections.
What if the french bread is for the reception dinner? What if they want to serve pie or cookies at the reception?
Personally I feel that if you have a religious reason to not sell something, then you should not offer that item in your shop. Jewish delis don't sell pork because it's against their religious beliefs, but they aren't allowed to sell pork to person A but refuse it to person B.
What if the french bread is for the reception dinner? What if they want to serve pie or cookies at the reception?
Personally I feel that if you have a religious reason to not sell something, then you should not offer that item in your shop. Jewish delis don't sell pork because it's against their religious beliefs, but they aren't allowed to sell pork to person A but refuse it to person B.
That is ridiculous. There is a difference between selling an entire product and only one part of the product. A Jewish deli sells all kinds of meats and cheeses for instance, but not pork. A bakery, sells all kinds of baked goods and if they do not want to sell to a particular group for any reason they have that right. What you are saying is: no one, who doesn't want to sell to a group because of religious reasons shouldn't own a particular business. Non sense. Would I not sell, based on religion, probably not. I have no reason to decide how someone else should live, but I do think people have a right to decide who they do business with.
What about an EMT working for a private ambulance company? How does he got contracts signed?
What about the baker who doesn't want to serve gays? Do you have to sign a contract promising you are not gay to get a cupcake? Or can the baker just refuse to sell you a cupcake because you look gay?
I was answering a question specifically about contracts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
What if it is a business that has taken a federal loan to get started?
The government has absolutely no business providing loans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nurider2002
If you have a business that serves the public, you serve the public. Anything else is blatant discrimination.
It seems stupid to me to turn away legal business. The issue isn't the customer, though, because how many business owners know that much about a customer. Example: Suppose I wanted a birthday cake made in the shape of a Sig Sauer P220 that says "Happy Birthday, Jackie." The cake makers tell me they refuse to do it because they are big proponents of gun control. Me, the actual customer, neither owns a gun nor is a member of the NRA. I'm just buying it for my friend's surprise birthday party. He is a gun enthusiast and I think it's a cute idea for a cake. If he collected Boston Red Sox MLB memorabilia, I would have asked for a Red Sox cap cake. Should I be denied service if the cake maker is a long time NY Yankees season ticket holder who hates the Red Sox? Why are they denying me service? Where does it end? They have now officially lost me as a customer.
And so you have identified the reason why there should be NO government control over what a business sells and who they choose to do business with.
The market can control businesses who wrongly choose who not to do business with. Stupid business owners will use bigotry and politics to decide who to sell to. They will be at a competitive disadvantage to smart business owners who don't let their politics and emotions get in the way of good business.
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