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Any parent huh? My husband and I offered to pay our grandson's private school tuition and we left it up to our son to pick the school. He researched all of the private schools and ended up choosing a very high rated public open enrollment fundamental elementary school.
Not all public schools are bad, the problem is that public schools in poor areas are almost always bad which leaves the people who can least afford to pay for private school with the fewest options.
You left it up to an elementary school kid to do research on schools? LMAO. That's funny.
Any parent huh? My husband and I offered to pay our grandson's private school tuition and we left it up to our son to pick the school. He researched all of the private schools and ended up choosing a very high rated public open enrollment fundamental elementary school.
Not all public schools are bad, the problem is that public schools in poor areas are almost always bad which leaves the people who can least afford to pay for private school with the fewest options.
What might be the outcome if the student bodies of the so called best and worst performing schools in a given state were switched?
It's very likely, the scores of the former worst performing school would soar and the performance of the former best performing school would plummet. The demand for AP classes at the former worst performing school would increase while AP courses at the former best performing school would substantially decline.
Taking it to an extreme, when a 9 year old gets paid $5 a day to ride his bike and serve as a lookout for a gang and earn the respect of older kids/ young adults, sitting in a classroom learning anything, pales by comparison.
When the kid's mother blames instead of taking responsibility, the child is listening.
When a child lives with 7 siblings and a parent in a one room apartment, the child learns it is someone else's fault.
When food runs out, the child learns it's someone else's fault.
When a child's siblings have multiple bio fathers, the child learns normal.
When a child hears nothing beyond how #%^** stupid he is, from birth, the child believes.
When a child's parent is often drunk or high or consumed with the daily grind of doing whatever it takes to get money and then scoring dope, the child learns.
When the child's older sibs are gunned down by a rival gang, the child learns to not expect to live beyond young adulthood and the outcome of killing one or a hundred is the same.
When a child is parked in front of a TV since birth, the child learns.
When nearly every male a child knows has been or is incarcerated, the child learns how life works.
Wonder what % of the kids in their schools are from uneducated illegal non English immigrant families. I'm always reluctant to blame the schools when there is so much more to the equation.
Bingo
They did the forced de-segregation experiment here by busing/choice. It sounds like AZ has done the same.The poor teachers spend a ridiculous amount of time devoting their attention to the ESL students.
The kids in the poor border areas get bused into what used to be good schools. In return those areas send their kids by choice to areas like La Jolla and those kids end up in private schools. Then they just shutter the original schools in the poor areas.
That is why the voucher thing keeps getting brought up here. The only saving grace was during the recession they had to stop busing allowing us to send our kids to our neighborhood schools again.
Can one use a voucher to attend out of district public schools? How would the child get to/ from their chosen school? Who pays for it?
Most parents do not have the means/ schedules to accompany their children to/ from school.
If one district spends $X per student and the voucher falls short, who pays the diff?
How does a school deal with an influx of students from substantially different socio/ economic/ educational bases than they traditionally served?
What happens when the number of applicants exceeds the number of seats in a school? A lottery? Selective criteria?
What if there are no reasonable choices?
Here, you don't use a voucher to attend another district's schools or a charter school or online academy. If they will take you (depends on space only), then you can go anywhere you want to go. No voucher needed. They use waiting lists for popular charters like Basis. Charters can't cherry pick students (but they can kick them out for not making progress they want). District and charters get state money based on per capita enrollment. The schools more often just increase class sizes as the fixed costs remain the same, so the financial incentives of allowing more students in are attractive. The vouchers are only for attending private and religious schools. The parent pays the difference.
As for dealing with the socio etc, I think that is not as much of a problem as it might be in other areas. My own local schools are magnets for out of district students. Most of them come from the relatively immediate area and are not all that different demographically.
You hit on the main problem of school choice, though. People can't get their kids to a school of their choice. In any case, why should poorer people have to leave district schools and travel to the affluent areas for a more quality education? It is patently unfair to them. To the extent possible, we should try to improve district and local charters so that everyone has a decent school near to their neighborhoods. The voucher program has the opposite effect in that it takes very limited funds (in AZ) and gives them to wealthy families. Since the schools get aid based only on enrollment, as the enrollment declines the fixed costs remain relatively stable and the schools become increasingly strapped.
Can one use a voucher to attend out of district public schools? How would the child get to/ from their chosen school? Who pays for it?
Most parents do not have the means/ schedules to accompany their children to/ from school.
If one district spends $X per student and the voucher falls short, who pays the diff?
How does a school deal with an influx of students from substantially different socio/ economic/ educational bases than they traditionally served?
What happens when the number of applicants exceeds the number of seats in a school? A lottery? Selective criteria?
What if there are no reasonable choices?
Vouchers are used in lieu of cash to pay tuition at private schools. When the tuition is more than the voucher (with the exception of religious schools, tuition is nearly always substantially more than voucher), scholarships and/or families pay the difference.
Families have to figure out their own transportation.
Private schools are unlikely to have to deal with students from substantially different socio/economic/educational backgrounds. In the first place, such families can rarely afford to make up the gap in tuition, plus transportation presents an obstacle.
Private schools are generally selective about who they take in. Test scores are often reviewed in the selection process. Those with difficult to deal with behavior issues are rarely admitted, or if they are, expelled quickly.
When people are paying $1K+/month for their kid to learn, they are mighty intolerant of misbehaving youngsters interfering with that. As to half a dozen students in each classroom needing IEP accommodations and tons of teach attention, doesn't happen. Not unless the school is geared to students with special needs.
What is likely to happen, is that groups will set up schools in church basements. Such space is often underused during the weekdays and situated in the communities. 15 student voucher would be able to support one teacher.
Public schools will soon be left with the most difficult students.
You hit on the main problem of school choice, though. People can't get their kids to a school of their choice. In any case, why should poorer people have to leave district schools and travel to the affluent areas for a more quality education? It is patently unfair to them. To the extent possible, we should try to improve district and local charters so that everyone has a decent school near to their neighborhoods. The voucher program has the opposite effect in that it takes very limited funds (in AZ) and gives them to wealthy families. Since the schools get aid based only on enrollment, as the enrollment declines the fixed costs remain relatively stable and the schools become increasingly strapped.
Nailed it.
Family involvement is a factor in many successful students. When kids attend schools way out of their neighborhoods, the opportunities for this are reduced.
There is a lot that can be done to improve public schools and we would be wise to do that rather than let the whole thing fall apart so that well-to-do families can get voucher help with private school tuition.
One thing we need to get over is our fear of ability/skill grouping by subject. The kids who are reading chapter books are bored out of the gourds doing worksheets waiting for the kids who are still learning their letters to catch up. The readers are wasting valuable time.
Some of the kids will indeed be left in the dust. Often these are the kid without supportive families so they are doubly screwed.
But we simply can't go on pretending this system is working out.
Your adversion to publicly- funded education is known. Most people do not agree.
Why would the educational needs for children in KS be different fron AZ?
What might state/ local taxes look like without federal funding?
Why should a state/ district within, decide for themselves what every child should know/ when?
How does that benefit the child if they live in a state/ district with low standards?
Colleges/ universities use standardized test scores as a part of the criteria used to accept/ deny admission. Should those students in states/ districts with low standards be assigned a handicap?
Parents seem to take great personal pride when their children do well in school and blame when their children do not.
But never ever blame themselves. Funny how the world works sometimes. Parents try to teach their children how to be a good citizen by being responsible, holding integrity, valuing family and friends, etc..... yet they probably can't even do it themselves. Or they can't come to the actualization that yeah, they also need to hold themselves accountable also for their own words. My parents struggle too but I put them on the spot for it when I feel the need to. It's easier to shift the blame onto someone else, harder to act like what you say consistently.
You left it up to an elementary school kid to do research on schools? LMAO. That's funny.
You might want to read my post again:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
My husband and I offered to pay our grandson's private school tuition and we left it up to our son to pick the school. He researched all of the private schools and ended up choosing a very high rated public open enrollment fundamental elementary school.
In case it still isn't clear, my son is an adult we left it up to him to pick the school for his son (our grandson) who is 5.
I get it, reading comprehension is hard...
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