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I think it may also have to do with the fact that a lot of those countries you study what your parents tell you you're going to study and parents like to pick subjects that make you more valuable as a employee, a marital prospect, or with job prospects in academics.
I think what we like to do in this country is tell women they have lots of choices...
... and when women have lots of choices they usually don't choose science and technology. Yes, this is quite a plausible explanation of that graph.
All,
Call me crazy but is it possible that the problem of STEM is that it's not a fit for being "cool" American culture thus little to do with women or men not being intelligent enough? I think if you poll American high schools and colleges I'd bet that the majority have their number one goal to getting rich is winning America's Got Talent or the Super Bowl. I mean how many times do we see STEM workers or majors being see as dorks, nerds and social misfits. In other countries like Japan and India STEM education is the future-- kids prioritize this. They know the chances of winning Japan's Got Talent is low...lol.
It's pathetic but it is what it is. I work in IT and played sports in high school and had friends on both sides of the aisle. Best way to grow up. Just my opinion and what I've come to observe.....
... and when women have lots of choices they usually don't choose science and technology. Yes, this is quite a plausible explanation of that graph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
I think it may also have to do with the fact that a lot of those countries you study what your parents tell you you're going to study and parents like to pick subjects that make you more valuable as a employee, a marital prospect, or with job prospects in academics.
I think what we like to do in this country is tell women they have lots of choices and then slam them behind their backs or in front of their faces for making those choices. Tell them directly and indirectly that they don't belong and that their feminity has been compromised. But the whole time we like to tell them that they are so lucky to have all these choices.
You responded to Stan4's post and quoted it, but you removed the part I have included above in bold. I guess you want folks to believe that the only reason women don't choose to study STEM is that despite having that choice, they just don't want to study STEM subjects. Ignoring the many, many studies that back up Stan4's bolded comments that you conveniently left out of your response doesn't negate the fact that choice is sometimes not as much about the ability to choose, but how one is treated once they choose.
And it's not just women who experience disapproval when choosing their course of study. Men who choose careers viewed by some as traditionally female like teaching and nursing experience the same. Their masculinity is questioned. They too are told they have a choice and then slammed for making one that some perceive doesn't conform to expectations.
Wouldn't traditional gender roles disqualify women from working in those fields.
Where did the chart come from and who is Claire Leahmann that we should take notice of her twitter?
Exactly. Claire Lehmann's opinion of gender roles means exactly the same to me as most people's: nothing. Unless she's an expert on gender roles across various cultures, I don't care what she thinks. And considering a certain POTUS' abuse of Twitter, I'm wary of people who use it to post important information.
People who have been paying attention have known this for years.
The MORE sex-egalitarianism in a society, the MORE women gravitate toward traditionally "women's" roles. This has been the case in Scandinavia (perhaps the most equal places in the world).
It cuts directly against feminist THEORY arguments that MEN are keeping or dissuading women from entering STEM. Maybe, when women have REAL CHOICES in a society, they do what they WANT. And MAYBE they just don't WANT to do STEM jobs?
And besides, why all the crying about women not going into STEM? Men are also 90%+ of garbage collectors in this country. Why no effort to equalize the garbage collection work force?
She is the founder and editor of quillette Home - Quillette. It comes from The International Standard Classification of Education (ISCED)
Ill only address this as I dont agree with your opinion of what feminism is all about.
She writes for a magazine and posted a chart on her twitter account. Is that suppose to mean something?
Are people suppose to take that as fact or some writers twitter post?
Why is there no link to the actual research/paper that the chart was lifted from. Context is needed to even consider interpretation of the chart.
... and when women have lots of choices they usually don't choose science and technology. Yes, this is quite a plausible explanation of that graph.
You're blowing my lady brain away with your scientific rigor that is sourced via a tweet. That a discussion that involves science at all is based on a tweet, sourced by a tweet, is something. Now, what accounts for that? A lack of traditional gender roles?
And the idea of choices does not exist in a vacuum. All of our choices are tempered by a host of responsibilities. Given that working women are also primary caretakers of their families, they have to be taken into consideration. Careers that allow flextime, have limited travel requirements, and more stability are key features of women's choices.
People who have been paying attention have known this for years.
The MORE sex-egalitarianism in a society, the MORE women gravitate toward traditionally "women's" roles. This has been the case in Scandinavia (perhaps the most equal places in the world).
It cuts directly against feminist THEORY arguments that MEN are keeping or dissuading women from entering STEM. Maybe, when women have REAL CHOICES in a society, they do what they WANT. And MAYBE they just don't WANT to do STEM jobs?
And besides, why all the crying about women not going into STEM? Men are also 90%+ of garbage collectors in this country. Why no effort to equalize the garbage collection work force?
Probably the same reason there's no crying out that there are few men working as hotel maids or day care providers or doing nails at the salon.
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