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Old 08-13-2017, 01:25 PM
 
45,101 posts, read 26,262,470 times
Reputation: 24831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
You can associate with anyone you like. What you can't do is tell people where they can or cannot live, work, or go to school. If you don't like your neighbors, co-workers, or fellow students, you can move, get a different job, or drop out.
If its private property ownership should be free to dictate who associates with who.

 
Old 08-13-2017, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,884,460 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
If its private property ownership should be free to dictate who associates with who.
You own Your Property, just not the property next door, so hence have No say in who lives there.
 
Old 08-13-2017, 01:31 PM
 
45,101 posts, read 26,262,470 times
Reputation: 24831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
You own Your Property, just not the property next door, so hence have No say in who lives there.
Where did I state otherwise, or did you not understand my post?
 
Old 08-13-2017, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,906 posts, read 5,552,260 times
Reputation: 12963
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
But it is their heritage. Heritage comes not from what you do but who you are. Only humans can pass on riches to their children and relatives. That makes us a human being and not just a human doing.

I don't know that proud is the word for me. I am thankful for being born to my parents and the good examples I had to follow and the genes passed on to me.

None of us are accidents. We were meant to be born where we were born and to have the parents we were born to or adopted by.

"American by birth and Southern by the grace of God" is a phrase that is popular around here. Very truthful!
AFP, it is not our fault others have decided to bunch everybody into one bundle. We have no one to apologize to because we are white and we should also be entitled to be proud of our ancestors even if some of them did fight for the South during the Civil War. To expect us to denounce or bad mouth our ancestors or be ashamed of them is the height of hypricrocy. My only responsibility is what I do. I appreciate my ancestors and love them just as much as anyone else loves their ancestors.

I cannot think of anything lower than to attack one's ancestors. That is probably what makes me so disgusted with the destruction of Civil War monuments. That is mean and nasty and criminal to destroy public property. You didn't build it so it is not your right to tear it down. Go do something constructive for a change.
I'm going to address the first part of what you said, because it touches on something I think is an important distinction: You spoke of being thankful. I am, too. That's gratitude. I'm grateful that I was born in a land of abundance, to intelligent and talented parents who had the resources to feed and clothe me and send me to school.

Gratitude is not the same thing as pride. Absence of pride is not the same thing as shame, either. I am neither proud nor ashamed of being white, or being American, for that matter. Both things just are. I didn't earn them, so how can I be proud? I didn't choose them, so there's no point in my being ashamed, even when I disagree with the actions of my fellow whites or my fellow Americans.

I also understand loving one's ancestors, at least the ones one has actually known. However, love does not necessarily imply unconditional approval, or at least it does not for me. I suspect our conversation would deteriorate rather quickly should continue along that train of thought, so I will reiterate my initial statement, one you seem to agree with: pride and gratitude are two different things.
 
Old 08-13-2017, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,827,150 times
Reputation: 4193
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
I am proud of who I am, not what I am. My whiteness is not the source my pride. My political beliefs are not a source of pride either. My pride is derived from faithfully waking up every morning, working 8-12 hours a day doing what I love, and encouraging others to work hard to fulfill their dreams and contribute. I lead by example, and that is how respect and admiration is earned. No one can take that away from me.
+5,000,000,000,000,0...all of the rep points.

Me too
 
Old 08-13-2017, 02:24 PM
 
10,195 posts, read 6,264,283 times
Reputation: 11268
I am proud to be a woman with all my gender has achieved in the last 50 years; white, black, asian, whatever, although we still have a long way to go I am proud to have had a college education, good jobs, birthed and raised the next generation to adulthood (Gen X AND Millennial), and lived to be a Granny.

I really don't care that I am white. I absolutely do not care, or would want, to be MALE.
 
Old 08-13-2017, 03:21 PM
 
49 posts, read 111,521 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
. . . we should also be entitled to be proud of our ancestors even if some of them did fight for the South during the Civil War. To expect us to denounce or bad mouth our ancestors or be ashamed of them is the height of hypricrocy. My only responsibility is what I do. I appreciate my ancestors and love them just as much as anyone else loves their ancestors.
I get how you feel on a simple emotional level. However, once we're adults, emotions alone should not dictate what we value and care about. I have confederate ancestors, too, but I am NOT proud of what they did or of that part of Southern history. The South is more than the Civil War. There are many things to celebrate and appreciate about the South, but the Confederacy is not one of them.

Also, we are talking here are PUBLIC monuments and PUBLIC flag displays. No one can dictate what you do in your home or your yard, but government parks and buildings belong to everyone. While taking down those statues feels like disrespect to you, leaving them up feels like disrespect to other people's ancestors -- black people, of course, but also all of the hundreds of thousands of white people who died for the Union. Having those statues up is like spitting in the face of Lincoln and everyone else who fought tirelessly to keep this country together. Not to mention how offensive and hurtful it is to our black neighbors and friends.

So yes, I get that it hurts a little see the statues taken down. But adults should be able to handle a little hurt for the greater good. We have to remember that there's a difference between sometimes offensive and something that's actually threatening. No one is threatened by removing confederate flags and monuments from public spaces. People can still fly them privately, as they wish. It's a small sacrifice for the greater good of social harmony and moving forward as a country.

You know people are always saying blacks should "get over slavery?" Well, I say it's time for whites to get over the confederacy. Then, and only then, can we start to talk about blacks getting over slavery. Until we get rid of those statues and flags, how can we possibly ask or expect black people to pretend like it never happened?
 
Old 08-13-2017, 03:36 PM
 
15,524 posts, read 15,521,702 times
Reputation: 21852
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Then tell me straight up. Why white people cannot be proud to be white? We got every other demographic, so proud and announcing who they are. Some white guy does it and he is some NAZI KKK dude. Can white people not be proud of who they are and express it like everyone else does, without getting virtue signaled?

I hope this stays rational and honest.

Proud? Why would I be proud?

It's an accident of birth that I'm white. It's nothing to be proud of.

It would make sense to be proud of my achievements, but not of just how I happen to be born. Lucky, but not proud.

It was pointed out to me that most people who are "proud" of their accident of race or nationality usually are fighting a sense of their inferiority.
 
Old 08-13-2017, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,050 posts, read 18,956,811 times
Reputation: 14779
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Then tell me straight up.

Why white people cannot be proud to be white?


We got every other demographic, so proud and announcing who they are.

Some white guy does it and he is some NAZI KKK dude.

Can white people not be proud of who they are and express it like everyone else does, without getting virtue signaled?


I hope this stays rational and honest.
Did you become white after years of study and hard work, or was it purely an accident of birth? Why would you be proud of something you had no control over?
 
Old 08-13-2017, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,432,455 times
Reputation: 24780
Lightbulb Are you PROUD of who you are?

As an old white guy born in America, I'm very aware of how fortunate I am. Even though I'm from a working class background with no wealth or property to speak of, I realize how good I've got it compared to billions of others around the world.

I (and my white US brethren) are the winners of earth's birthright lottery. We generally have it better than anyone else simply due to the random fact of being born here with the right complexion.

It's not a point of pride with me.

I've been to and worked in 3rd world countries where the people suffer from lives of poverty and lack of opportunity. People who have the same needs and desires as any one of us, but lack the good fortune that I was born into.

Every day, I'm thankful that I'm an American. And I know that all Americans don't enjoy the advantages that I've had, even though I did nothing to earn them.
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