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Look, I am a white southern male who have ancestors who fought for the South in the Civil War and I honor who they were not what they were fighting for.
For me, I like Robert E. Lee. He was a great leader and war general that I think many can learn from. He was not a policy maker so, just like any soldier who fought in Iraq and disagreed why they were there, he still fought because that was what he was called to do.
It is quite sad that this cannot be seen and it is those of us who view our history in this manor that should be speaking out against the atrocious acts of racism and violence that these white extremists so disgustingly partake in under the false pretense of southern heritage.
Let me be very clear to these groups, you are not a part of our heritage. Our heritage is both black and white neighbors living together in good times and bad, learning from our mistakes, and moving forward together while recognizing our past that got us all here today. Never is hatred welcome in this society and how dare these white extremist terrorist groups use our past and heritage for hate and bigotry.
Agreed - though I am a white Southern woman. I hate that our heritage has been hijacked by extremists and that there are many who just lump us all together. I also just don't get the current popularity of being a "victim". Of any kind. Woman were chattels for a long, long time - treated like property. Black men got the vote after the Civil War but it took decades longer for women. There are tons of examples. But I don't grumble and protest and hate men because of it. I refuse to be a victim - it's a total waste of time.
As for history, the US has done a lot of things that did (and continue) to offend a wide variety of folks. If we start down the slippery slope of getting rid of any buildings, monuments, park names, etc., that some group finds offensive, then pretty soon our history will be erased and the US will be some PC generic fascist nightmare. And remember that history is complex because people are complex.
I take issue with this. This was probably the reason Lincoln never put Confederate leaders on trial, and look at the effect this has had on black Americans in our country.
The fact is, as a nation, we have never paid penance for slavery. Tell me, what was the punishment meted out to those who mutilated and raped black Americans, who separated parents from their children and sold them like animals? What happened to the slave owners?
You see, unlike Germany, which bears the Holocaust as a national shame, our nation has simply felt uncomfortable about slavery would rather just move on already like it never happened.
Simply ending slavery wasn't enough, but truthfully that's all our country did. Reparations were never paid, punishment never doled out to those who perpetrated these heinous crimes against African Americans. We welcomed back the Confederate states with open arms. Confederate generals were reintegrated into society - I believe some in fact became professors at universities. The shaming of the people who supported slavery that was so rightly deserved never happened. Then we allowed Jim Crow to happen...and the Civil Rights Act wasn't passed until 1964.
Because this national shaming never happened, it allowed these pockets of culture to develop all over the South lauding the values of the Confederacy, and a pride in what they fought for, when in what what they fought for was utterly grotesque.
Confederate heritage is not something to be proud of -- they fought to protect the institution of slavery. That was their primary beef.
This is why Germans don't really relate to American patriotism - because they have a very dark part of their recent past. They don't celebrate Nazi relics as part of their heritage. Why on Earth should anyone celebrate Confederate "heritage"?
I'm fairly certain I have ancestors on my paternal grandfather's side fought for the South (They were Virginians, I believe). I don't take pride in it. I think it's unfortunate, but I didn't choose my ancestors. However, I'm certainly not going to celebrate what they fought for.
some of my ancestors were tories........ they fled to Nova Scotia during the revolution.Should I ,today be punished because one part of one side of my family fought/opposed the forming of America over 200 years ago??? I am responsible for myself. I do not know what my ancestors were thinking or the circumstances..........but I sure as hell are not going to condemn them for it. I am sure many descendents of confederate soldiers either feel the same or may even be proud they took a stand for something{ as wrong as it may have been} Custer is still looked upon as an American hero.......for what, Trying genocide on the American Indian?
There are plenty of memorials in Germany for its war dead of ww2. The German people welcomed their soldiers home from POW camps. So what would have made it "right"? have an exslave get to own an ex-confederate soldier............sheesh. get over it.
And this is something that I don't get about this controversy: the people who fought in the Civil War, and had friends and family who died in the war, didn't have half as much rancor toward the Confederates as you guys do one hundred and fifty years after the fact.
This^ this is what makes me mad.........as I said in another post.........GET over it.
Here is my question for anyone who wants to answer. Let's say you take your 10 year son to see Robert E Lee statue.He ask you the followering question.
Dad who is that.
That is Robert E Lee son who was the General of the Confederacy.
Dad is he a hero.
To some he is son.
Dad did he win the war.
No son he lost the war.
Dad what would have happen if he won the war.
Son we have continued with the practice of slavery and split the nation in half.
So dad tell me again why is he a hero.
Dad crickets, crickets crickets.
Last edited by Grainraiser; 08-15-2017 at 09:34 PM..
Are you upset about the statues coming down because it is part of your heritage.
Are you racists? If not then why don't you come out against white supremacists etc and defend your heritage.
Same as saying for Muslims to come out against hatred and violence.
Most don't because people will just sit there and go "RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST RACIST" and that is the end of any discussion.
Frankly I don't care from that perspective but I think it is silly to pretend that history didn't exist because there were bad things. That bad things from history are supposed to be lessons learned.
News flash: the Confederates lost. They were traitors to the United States. These monuments were erected to a bunch of losers. Sore losers and traitors, plain and simple. They should never have been erected in the first place. Wipe them from the face of the earth and get over it, indeed. Preferably in a cleansing fire.
Germany respected their war dead, who they see as victims of their own fascist government under Hitler. They took all monuments to Hitler and the Third Reich down after the war. We should follow their example.
Germany respected their war dead, who they see as victims of their own fascist government under Hitler. They took all monuments to Hitler and the Third Reich down after the war. We should follow their example.
This is an inapt comparison for many reasons. The main one being that Hitler and the Nazi leaders were all dead soon after the war, but the Confederate leaders were prominent members of American society for many years after the Civil War. It seems very strange to hold them in greater contempt now, a century and a half later, than they were then.
No the South's own Declarations of Secession and recorded secession debates clearly indicate that they are seceding to preserve the Institution of Slavery. The North fought to preserve the Union.
Southern leaders had ZERO plans to free slaves at the time of secession.
Lincoln wanted to "stop the expansion of slavery," which meant no new slave states out west or anywhere. The North already dominated the House of Representatives, which means they also dominated the Electoral College...and with a growing nation (in terms of states) would come to dominate the Senate if only free states were added as Lincoln had planned. Eventually, the North could impose its will on the South on any slave issue including emancipation through control of the national government.
Thus, why Lincoln was unacceptable to the South.
Really? Because Great Britain was their ally. Do you think they would have accepted slavery had the south won? I don't think so.
And this is something that I don't get about this controversy: the people who fought in the Civil War, and had friends and family who died in the war, didn't have half as much rancor toward the Confederates as you guys do one hundred and fifty years after the fact.
amazing that after the other thread about New Orleans' confederate statue and all the quotes that we posted from actual confederates from that time, that people still choose to ignore the words of the exact group they claim to represent. Amazing!
here's a sample:
Quote:
John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...." [Journal of the Virginia Secession Convention, Vol. II, p. 139]
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