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When I see an Statue of a person who was in a war, I dont think of them as traitors. I see them as the men they were, fighting for the side they chose.
Based on what people seem to think in the AltLeft, my Great Grandfather and Great Uncle are traitors to the USA. They were simple farmers living near Atlanta, and were told to fight. They did, one came home in a box, the other lived.
And why is it that these statues are being compared to Nazis. Its always the Nazis. Cant you AltLefties, come up with something original. Everyone hated what the Nazi regime did to the jews etc. It was horrific time in our worlds history.
But, succeeding from the Union was something the states had the right to do. Whether you like it or not, the people living in those states didnt necessarily decide to succeed.
My point was the leaders at the time, like politicians today, felt doing what they did was the right thing for the south to survive due to financial hardships coming their way due to the Norths politics.
Slavery was a horrible thing that blacks, Irish, Chinese etc had to endure, and we all are thankful the Republican party got the 13th Amendment passed and ratified..
But, our history is being erased as not all are putting statues in museums, or putting crosses in building, vice in monuments out in the fields. Some just want them taken down, and destroyed...
If you are doing that, that is what Hitler did, and its SOP for marxism.
If we are going to remove them, we need to have an accord as to where they need to go. Museums are the best answer, unless the monuments are on Private lands of course, then they need to stay at owners rights.
These statues meant nothing to many till Obama came into office, and his ilk went after anything Southern heritage, Gun related, Anti LBGT etc..Enough. Grow some and sit down and come to accords. Stop reacting to BS to feel good..
When I see an Statue of a person who was in a war, I dont think of them as traitors. I see them as the men they were, fighting for the side they chose.
Based on what people seem to think in the AltLeft, my Great Grandfather and Great Uncle are traitors to the USA. They were simple farmers living near Atlanta, and were told to fight. They did, one came home in a box, the other lived.
And why is it that these statues are being compared to Nazis. Its always the Nazis. Cant you AltLefties, come up with something original. Everyone hated what the Nazi regime did to the jews etc. It was horrific time in our worlds history.
But, succeeding from the Union was something the states had the right to do. Whether you like it or not, the people living in those states didnt necessarily decide to succeed. My point was the leaders at the time, like politicians today, felt doing what they did was the right thing for the south to survive due to financial hardships coming their way due to the Norths politics.
Slavery was a horrible thing that blacks, Irish, Chinese etc had to endure, and we all are thankful the Republican party got the 13th Amendment passed and ratified.. But, our history is being erased as not all are putting statues in museums, or putting crosses in building, vice in monuments out in the fields. Some just want them taken down, and destroyed...
If you are doing that, that is what Hitler did, and its SOP for marxism.
If we are going to remove them, we need to have an accord as to where they need to go. Museums are the best answer, unless the monuments are on Private lands of course, then they need to stay at owners rights.
These statues meant nothing to many till Obama came into office, and his ilk went after anything Southern heritage, Gun related, Anti LBGT etc..Enough. Grow some and sit down and come to accords. Stop reacting to BS to feel good..
If you claim southern heritage, you should at least learn why your Great Grandfather came home in a box.
1) They didn't have that right. That's why the Union forced them into submission.
2) It was nothing to do to "survive" any "financial hardships"
The Southern elite used slavery as it was the cheapest way for them to build wealth. They priced everyone else out of being able to afford slaves and land. When the Federal government wanted to sell a bunch of farmable land to the not-elite class, the government of the South worked against it. They actively sought to destroy any class mobility.
The elite were poor farmers. They practiced unsustainable farming and were destroying the land. They wanted to move slavery West, the North wanted to limit it to the South.
The war was over being blocked from spreading slavery and policies to keep people from moving up in life. The Confederacy represented wealthy land owners, the poor paid for their war in blood.
3) Not to be confused with the Republican party today.
4) Removing these monuments (they're not just statues) has nothing to do with re-writing history. These men are NOT heros. They betrayed their country and took up arms. We all get that they were defending their homes, whether they were a part of the elite or not. That doesn't mean they should be honored, they still betrayed the nation, our nation. History belongs in the museums. Not the monuments in public parks.
No, they don't need to be destroyed. However, I understand that perhaps the time has passed that they move somewhere else. Post Civil War the North didn't want to grind the South into the dirt. We've whitewashed really learning about the Civil War since it ended. It was better to promote healing then bringing up the past.
If people really want a statue to commemorate the Civil War, I propose that every single Confederate statue be replaced with a General Sherman version in every prominent location possible. Because really, that's the true history of the war. They lost, and they lost at the hands of men like him. And because it would be hilarious to watch the white supremacists and Southern revisionists squirm.
Naw, if they really want to commemorate the Civil War, they should have statues of the poor guys that were drafted to fight. You know, the farmers and tradesmen that had to leave their families with no income. The ones who came home without a limb, those with TB, or maybe the ones who died of the ****s in the trenches. I'd rather see them than some puffed up general anyway.
I wrote in another post about this that the statues should serve as reminders to all of a terrible time in our history where we fought to the death over what we believed in.
The statues should not be viewed as symbols of racism or oppression but they should serve as beacons of how far we have all come from those dark days. They should be symbols of pride for black people and reminders of their ancestors struggles. To the black youth they should be taught to pull up their saggy pants, thumb their nose at the statue because today the sky is the limit for them.
We need to learn from these statues not take them down and erase their lessons.
They should be put in museums to remind us of how bad of a mistake the Civil War was. It should serve as a reminder of how bigoted times really were in those days.
You don't get to decide what are symbols of pride for Black people. So don't even try your little deflection. Black people pulling their pants up has nothing to do with this discussion. You're only bringing that up to deflect from the topic. If this topic isn't important to you, don't bring deflections in this discussion. You don't get to decide. I will decide what I personally should consider a source of pride. And Confederate soldiers to me are a source of how screwed up things have been.
If you claim southern heritage, you should at least learn why your Great Grandfather came home in a box.
...
4) Removing these monuments (they're not just statues) has nothing to do with re-writing history. These men are NOT heros. They betrayed their country and took up arms. We all get that they were defending their homes, whether they were a part of the elite or not. That doesn't mean they should be honored, they still betrayed the nation, our nation. History belongs in the museums. Not the monuments in public parks.
No, they don't need to be destroyed. However, I understand that perhaps the time has passed that they move somewhere else. Post Civil War the North didn't want to grind the South into the dirt. We've whitewashed really learning about the Civil War since it ended. It was better to promote healing then bringing up the past.
The world is not so black and white.
The men who took up arms did so to defend their states, after a vote was held. You do know what a Civil war is right ? The Syrian Kurds, the Syrian Sunnis, the Syrian Christians - are they traitors to Assad (he says so) ? Not everyone who fights in a civil war are traitors. The side that wins is the one that writes the history. In the civil war over 500K men died for their country not only the 270K some Union soldiers. One of the reasons that Lincoln is considered great is because he was wise enough not to brand the southerners as traitors.
Additionally, You know some support southern heritage without having known ancestors who died fighting the civil war, perhaps they moved there in the 1880s or 1900s. You need to stop being so dogmatic - it will help make your points.
The men who took up arms did so to defend their states, after a vote was held. You do know what a Civil war is right ? The Syrian Kurds, the Syrian Sunnis, the Syrian Christians - are they traitors to Assad (he says so) ? Not everyone who fights in a civil war are traitors. The side that wins is the one that writes the history. In the civil war over 500K men died for their country not only the 270K some Union soldiers. One of the reasons that Lincoln is considered great is because he was wise enough not to brand the southerners as traitors.
History has always been written by the victors. In the case of the Civil War, the victors took mercy when writing history. They did so in the name of healing the nation, which was a great course of action. We're past that time now.
See:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth
4) Removing these monuments (they're not just statues) has nothing to do with re-writing history. These men are NOT heros. They betrayed their country and took up arms. We all get that they were defending their homes, whether they were a part of the elite or not. That doesn't mean they should be honored, they still betrayed the nation, our nation. History belongs in the museums. Not the monuments in public parks. .
Most people throughout history take the side of where their home is located. That doesn't negate the cold hard fact that they took up arms against the United States, that is black and white. I'm not calling for shunning them. The history of the Civil War is important. These statues in question however are monuments towards men put in public areas. Times change, while I don't personally care either way, I get why many see its time to move the statues elsewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro
Additionally, You know some support southern heritage without having known ancestors who died fighting the civil war, perhaps they moved there in the 1880s or 1900s. You need to stop being so dogmatic - it will help make your points.
So support southern heritage. That doesn't mean flying a Confederate flag or mean monuments towards Confederate leadership has to stay in place. The Civil War is a stain on American history, it's not southern heritage. New Orleans has no problem displaying its southern heritage without the Confederacy. The Confederate government wasn't looking out for the interests of the hundreds of thousands who died for it. It was a government for the rich by the rich.
This Northern aggression or states rights is simply used to mask how broken the South was. It was about the power of the few, the same reason many wars were fought throughout history.
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