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Old 08-17-2017, 10:22 AM
 
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Read the southern State's secession documents and constitutions and then tell me it was not about slavery.
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Old 08-17-2017, 11:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1944 View Post
Read the southern State's secession documents and constitutions and then tell me it was not about slavery.
That doesn't mean that if slavery had never existed, that a war wouldn't have happened anyway.
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:53 PM
 
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For those Lincoln worshippers, early on he said that he had to plans to abolish slavery. When most of the northern states hesitated on backing the war is when he changed his stance. The Emancipation Proclamation only concerned the seven states that had seceded at that time, it was not directed toward the other states that had slaves. The proclamation was most likely illegal anyway since it violated the standing laws.
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:58 PM
 
Location: exit 0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
If slavery had never existed, would there have been a Civil War?
Yeppers!
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Old 08-17-2017, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,460 posts, read 11,226,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
If slavery had never existed, would there have been a Civil War?
Well, there was a revolutionary war that wasn't caused by the existence of slaves but I don't disagree with you.
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Old 08-17-2017, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
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Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War

The civil war was largely driven by economics. Northern industrialists and workers wanted to maximize their profits and wages. They did so by discriminatory tariffs on both imported and exported goods. The Northern economy was largely industrial-the south's largely agrarian. The north wanted high import tariffs on manufactured items. This forced up the price of items foreign producers, which were largely purchased by the citizens of southern states. This in turn allowed northern producers to increase the prices of their products sold to southern states.

At the same time, the north, particularly the textile industry was dependant on cotton produced in the south. They wanted it at the lowest possible prices. So, to ensure that-they passed an EXPORT tariff on cotton. This artificially inflated the prices foreign purchasers would have to pay for the product, which in turn forced southern producers to lower their prices to remain competitive. Which, in turn, meant that northern producers could also buy these products at the new, artificially low prices (without of course paying the export tariff).

While northern states had far more voting residents (especially so since southern slaves were not allowed to vote under the US constitution), they had the power to pass such tariffs in the house. However, since the founding fathers allowed each state 2 senators and the number of states was approximately equal, such bills would not pass the senate. The influence of the admission of new states into the union would skew that balance one way or the other.

Slavery was a fundamental tool of the south's economic engine-agriculture. Want to destroy the south's political power? Weaken their economy. Lets face it-the north couldn't rally a lot of support for a civil war with a stated motive of "high tariffs". It would have been seen as simple greed. However, when you can rally people behind abolishing slavery and claim a moral high ground...it is much higher to recruit support. The northern media, then, like now, were highly influential in duping citizens to support violence and war...in the name of profits.
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:26 PM
 
5,082 posts, read 2,015,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War

The civil war was largely driven by economics. Northern industrialists and workers wanted to maximize their profits and wages. They did so by discriminatory tariffs on both imported and exported goods. The Northern economy was largely industrial-the south's largely agrarian. The north wanted high import tariffs on manufactured items. This forced up the price of items foreign producers, which were largely purchased by the citizens of southern states. This in turn allowed northern producers to increase the prices of their products sold to southern states.
I also saw a older thread on C-D about The Rothschilds who was sort of involved in the Civil War. But that would be falling into Alex Jones' territory. //www.city-data.com/forum/histo...avery-war.html The Rothschilds And The Civil War

Also, there was some small pockets of Sudists sympathizers in the North called "Copperhead". It was a featured in a movie starring Peter Fonda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSIYfE-OIKo
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Pixley
3,519 posts, read 2,808,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1944 View Post
Read the southern State's secession documents and constitutions and then tell me it was not about slavery.
For those with poor Googling skills.

The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/prima...eceding-states


Mississippi is a prime example:

A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union. - ... "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. "
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Huntsville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
If slavery had never existed, would there have been a Civil War?


Very possibly.


The big picture of the war was that the South did not want the North to infringe upon the states' right to govern themselves. Abolition of slavery was the hot topic as that was one of the major practices that the North sought to end. Forcing the states to abolish slavery meant that the US Government was stepping outside of their bounds to force a change.


If slavery hadn't existed, and the North had decided instead to abolish the growth of tobacco or cotton that was the livelihood of many Southern families there could have very well been a war over it. Or if the US Government decided to take farm land away from Southern landowners to use for Government purposes, there could have been a war over it (sound familiar?).


Slavery was the platform that was used because it was controversial and had a polarizing effect between the two areas. There are many different scenarios that could have sparked a civil war. However since those didn't come to light the only thing we know is that we don't know.


Remember that slavery wasn't immediately abolished in the North. The goal was to slowly phase it out over the years. If it were of the utmost importance to the North, then why weren't they calling for the immediate abolishment of the practice?
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:16 PM
 
28,590 posts, read 18,629,703 times
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Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
If slavery hadn't existed, and the North had decided instead to abolish the growth of tobacco or cotton that was the livelihood of many Southern families there could have very well been a war over it.
And what would northern textile mills have used for cotton? What would northern smokers have smoked? That's silly.

Quote:
Or if the US Government decided to take farm land away from Southern landowners to use for Government purposes, there could have been a war over it (sound familiar?).
What "government purposes in 1860?

Yes, it sounds familiar. Sounds like Alex Jones screeching about JADE HELM.


Slavery was the platform that was used because it was controversial and had a polarizing effect between the two areas. There are many different scenarios that could have sparked a civil war. However since those didn't come to light the only thing we know is that we don't know.


Remember that slavery wasn't immediately abolished in the North. The goal was to slowly phase it out over the years. If it were of the utmost importance to the North, then why weren't they calling for the immediate abolishment of the practice?[/quote]

At the time of the Emancipation Proclaimation, there were fewer than 100 slaves (one hundred) in those few northern states that had not already abolished it by state law. Very quickly after the Emancipation Proclamation, all were freed.
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