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Old 08-19-2017, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,212 posts, read 22,344,773 times
Reputation: 23853

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Member1 View Post
Montana wasn't even a state during the Civil War...

Montana Removes Confederate Memorial - CBSNews.com
The Montana territory received a lot of former confederates after the war ended. All the western states did, as the west was still unspoiled territory where a man could get ahead, while the south was so devastated it was next to impossible for the veterans to survive, much less ever hope to prosper again.

Wherever the men went, the Daughters of the Confederacy followed, and they were responsible for erecting most of the monuments that were erected in the west. They were the ones who erected the fountain on the Montana capital grounds in 1916.

Make no mistake about the intention that lies behind every confederate monument. They are all implying that the south occupies this ground, and white people are superior to all others. Those who defy us had best be very cautious, as we are watching and we will strike you down.

There were some mining camps and timber camps that were almost totally populated by southerners who fled the south in Montana, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Arizona, Nevada, and other western states. Here in Idaho, 2 mining camps that are now ghost towns, but once had populations in the hundreds to thousands while the gold and silver weren't mined out were named Dixie and Atlanta.

Those names were obviously intended as warnings; this camp is southern, and all yankees had better keep out.

Of course, the names didn't keep the yankee prospectors away, as gold for the taking is gold. Both camps became battlegrounds, and both burned to the ground more than once before the minerals finally ran out.

And when the mines played out, those who lived there either drifted on to other camps or lost their will to fight on for the Lost Cause and moved into communities where they integrated into all the others who lived there.

But every time the KKK or white nationalism feelings arose, the Daughters of the Confederacy would quickly put a monument up wherever they could. They, and all the other Confederate private organizations, wanted to keep the confederacy alive to fight another day.

Alive for as long as it took for the confederacy to rise again. And with the rise, the life of the pre-war south to be revived in all its glory and squalor equally.

Many of these old confederate groups still exist, but the attrition of time has greatly diminished them all. It's very hard to perpetuate anger for 160 years, after all. But any time nationalist feelings flare up, those who still have the ability to erect another monument will do it if they can, in hopes of keeping the anger as high as possible.

There are monuments that were erected as late as the 1960s in some western states. They arose during the civil rights movement in the south.

The rise of the resurrected Klu Klux Klan in the 1920s saw hundreds of new confederate monuments being erected all over the mid-west, west, and southwest.

The confederacy very nearly ruined the United States of America. The lingering damage won't end until we put our tragic past to rest for good. For as long as one group of us feels like they can threaten another with impunity, they will try to do it.

That's human nature at its worst. But Americans have always sought our better angels. That is what has kept us together and brought on our triumph and ascent as a nation. Without the guidance of our better angels, we are not immune to falling back into tribal divisions that are always destructive and frequently tear a country apart.

Do we want to become a Serbia? Or a Congo?

Do not believe it can't happen here. It can, and it very nearly did, 160 years ago. Only blood spilling on such immensity that brought on partial ruination to about half of us stopped it, and then only from total exhaustion on both sides.

The Serbs are now exhausted, and still living in rubble, with few resources left to reunite, even after 25 years of uneasy truce with each other, but no lasting peace. Do any of us want that for ourselves?

How much is some old symbols of division and hatred really worth to our civilization?
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,230 posts, read 26,172,300 times
Reputation: 15621
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
Scratch that off the bucket list. Going to see the Confederate monuments in Montana.
It wasn't on anyone's bucket list, who cares one way or the other.
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,743 posts, read 22,635,943 times
Reputation: 24902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
sounds like a personal attack on me for some reason ...... I quoted the City Commissioners statements - they clearly stated their reasons for removing the Scary Racist Fountain.
They are SCARED ..... I guess we have to respect their honesty.
Intimidation tactics appear to work. Anarchists are pretty intimidating, especially when the Police are not allowed to protect the public and are given Stand Down Orders.
I am attacking your dimwitted statement. As a resident here I have that optic that you don't, however you seem to espouse as unwarranted rubbish.

Why do YOU care what happens in MY town, and how dare you generalize the matter.


Grow up and get a pair. You want to post smack expect it back Sunshine.
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,212 posts, read 22,344,773 times
Reputation: 23853
Ain't nothing that lasts forever.

Maybe it's time in a new century for a 100-year old fountain to be replaced with a new one, one that all Montanans can take equal pride in, and one that is designed by Montanans, made from Montana rock and Montana bronze, cast in a Montana foundry, and built by Montanans.

The citizens of Butte did just that in Montana.

When the Anaconda mine, the richest copper mine in the world, finally played out, all the out of work miners in Butte constructed a huge 90-foot tall statue of the Virgin Mary, on top of a mountain opposite the city, resting on the continental divide, with her arms outspread, an enormous white blessing for a sorely afflicted city.

She was designed in Butte, engineered in Butte, built by the people of Butte and paid for by the people of Butte.

She's very beautiful. And she gave those who made her hope for a better day. An assurance of resurrection, if not in this world, for certain in the one that awaits us all.

That's the kind of true American spirit that should be cherished. This is really who we are and who we all want to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_the_Rockies

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...es&FORM=HDRSC2

We are all still Americans. We can still accomplish great things when we have the common will to make great things happen. That's what we have always done the best.

Last edited by banjomike; 08-19-2017 at 05:06 PM..
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:01 PM
 
72,971 posts, read 62,554,457 times
Reputation: 21872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Member1 View Post
Montana wasn't even a state during the Civil War...

Montana Removes Confederate Memorial - CBSNews.com
Montana didn't even have anything to do with Confederacy. I don't know why they would have Confederate monuments there in the first place.
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,735,298 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Montana didn't even have anything to do with Confederacy. I don't know why they would have Confederate monuments there in the first place.
Apparently because an organization named Daughters of the Confederacy were on a mission to make sure the south would rise again, and they thought planting statues around the country was a good way to do that.
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Old 08-20-2017, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,350,188 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Apparently because an organization named Daughters of the Confederacy were on a mission to make sure the south would rise again, and they thought planting statues around the country was a good way to do that.
Were soldiers placed inside the statues like a Trojan horse?

Don't tell me they're going to pop out and start fighting Yankees.
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Old 08-20-2017, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,735,298 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Were soldiers placed inside the statues like a Trojan horse?

Don't tell me they're going to pop out and start fighting Yankees.
Yeah, I know. Seems like a weird idea to me, too.

Those soldiers would be a bit creaky by now.
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Old 08-20-2017, 08:49 AM
mlb
 
Location: North Monterey County
4,971 posts, read 4,448,689 times
Reputation: 7903
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Western states really didn't have heavy involvement in the war. There were no battles out here, minus a small skirmish I believe in AZ, which wasn't any deciding factor. My own state came down on the side of the Union but not till 1865 and the war was over anyway.

Federal troops stationed at Ft. Churchill were called back East and the fort was manned by the NV Territorial Volunteers, who's main job was to catch anyone heading East who was suspected of Confederate leanings and march them naked around the parade ground till they swore loyalty to the Union.

I find it interesting that Native Americans would chime in about this particular monument. Many Native Americans fought for the Confederacy with conviction. Western tribes shared hatred of the blue coats in common. Meh. My heads starting to hurt.

Commanders such as Stand Watie were instrumental in the Confederacy and there was a treaty with the Choctaw and Chikasaw tribes. West of the Mississippi and over the Rockies there was no tribal involvement in the Civil War. But Western tribes had been at war with the Union for a while. I'd be interested in hearing and actual statement from these "Native Americans" who called for this statues removal.
Utter bull****.

Utah's Dixie was steeped in slave culture, historians say - The Salt Lake Tribune

Pretty clear that the confederacy had support in the western territories.
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Old 08-20-2017, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,229 posts, read 18,561,496 times
Reputation: 25798
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
The Montana territory received a lot of former confederates after the war ended. All the western states did, as the west was still unspoiled territory where a man could get ahead, while the south was so devastated it was next to impossible for the veterans to survive, much less ever hope to prosper again.
It's true! I saw it on TV. "Johnny Yuma was a rebel, he roamed through the West......"

Guess, I have to feel guilty now. I watched this show as a kid.

The Rebel (TV Series 1959
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