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Old 08-20-2017, 04:53 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,379 posts, read 60,575,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
This. I've never understood why we erect statues and name military bases, schools, etc., after a bunch of traitors.
Because they were specifically not considered traitors when the Civil War ended, part of Lincoln's blueprint for Reconstruction which was mostly followed after his assassination.
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Old 08-20-2017, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,143 posts, read 10,709,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
The Confederacy was beaten by industrialization and lack of manpower.

But anyway...
Yes, those contributed as well. The biggest problem for the soldiers, though, was a lack of supplies. Food, medicine, clothing, even ammunition were difficult to come by. The south had a poor network of roads, an unreliable railroad system, and they had lost most of their port access early in the war. Had the logistical positions been reversed, or the Confederacy had a more centralized chain of command, it's entirely possible the outcome would have been different. The argument can be made that the Confederacy actually had more good generals than the Union did, but the best general in the world won't win over the long term if their supply chain is broken.

The point, though, is that calling Confederation soldiers traitors is a lie. If the people they were shooting at didn't classify them as traitors, we shouldn't either.

At a basic level, the difference between the Confederacy and the Revolutionaries who started our country is a simple matter of who won. Both wanted freedom from someone else dictating to them, both decided to leave the country they were a part of, both fought a revolution. The Colonists won, the Confederacy lost. History is written by the winners.
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Old 08-20-2017, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,143 posts, read 10,709,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
I don't care if they were retroactively made US soldiers or if they had superior military skills. They're the very definition of traitors and should have been executed for treason the day after the civil war ended.
History is your friend. You should look into it. It might help you to understand why they weren't considered traitors, and that most of the time the world isn't binary. There is no black and white, just differing shades of gray.

Luckily, Lincoln didn't share your views. Do you realize how much damage would have been done to this nation had the Union executed the Confederate soldiers? It's entirely possible that we never would have recovered and that the "Great Experiment" would have ended before 1900.
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Old 08-20-2017, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,228 posts, read 27,597,823 times
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I agree with Jimrom, it's a problem that we have such a binary right/wrong view of the world today.
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Richmond,VA
3,840 posts, read 3,066,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
This. I've never understood why we erect statues and name military bases, schools, etc., after a bunch of traitors.


Obama is a traitor so correct, we shouldn't name anything after him either (although I'm good with sewage plants looking for a name).
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:33 PM
 
2,274 posts, read 1,338,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
Because Confederate soldiers and generals aren't considered traitors. With a few exceptions, they were retroactively recognized as United States soldiers. And because some of the Confederate generals were absolute geniuses on the battlefield. Hate to tell you, but the Confederacy was beaten mainly by logistics, not because the Union had a better army.

It amazes me how few people realize that the Confederate soldiers weren't considered traitors. Our schools really are failing our children.
Every person that fought for the Confederacy was a traitor and a scumbag. You can retroactively call them whatever you want. People that were fighting a war against the United States for the right to continue to buy and sell human beings are not worthy of our respect. The Confederacy was fighting for the right to rape, torture and murder human beings that were being bought and sold like cattle.

Instead of statues and monuments, every Confederate general should have received a bullet to the head or a noose around their neck.
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:55 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,379 posts, read 60,575,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorman View Post
Every person that fought for the Confederacy was a traitor and a scumbag. You can retroactively call them whatever you want. People that were fighting a war against the United States for the right to continue to buy and sell human beings are not worthy of our respect. The Confederacy was fighting for the right to rape, torture and murder human beings that were being bought and sold like cattle.

Instead of statues and monuments, every Confederate general should have received a bullet to the head or a noose around their neck.
Nothing "retroactive" about it, it was done contemporaneously with the end of the Civil War. Good, bad or indifferent. Whether you or I agree with it the history is written, the ink is dry.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:23 PM
 
18,561 posts, read 7,370,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trlhiker View Post
Change them. Why have bases named after traitors.
We shouldn't, but that's not what we're talking about.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:24 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,198,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
Because Confederate soldiers and generals aren't considered traitors. With a few exceptions, they were retroactively recognized as United States soldiers. And because some of the Confederate generals were absolute geniuses on the battlefield. Hate to tell you, but the Confederacy was beaten mainly by logistics, not because the Union had a better army.

It amazes me how few people realize that the Confederate soldiers weren't considered traitors. Our schools really are failing our children.
But they were traitors, and the Union was a better army.

Confederate generals were geniuses? Really?

Ok then...in the first place, why did they launch an offensive war when all they had to do was fight to a draw to win the war? If they were so logistically poor as you say, then they should've known better. The Union had to go on the offense to win. The South didn't.

Secondly, Confederate generals are HIGHLY overrated. History has been much kinder to them because of loser's revisionism than it should be. Most Confederate generals were decent at best.

They weren't even smart enough to beg Lee to have the order rescinded that wouldn't allow the Confederacy to exchange black Union troops for Confederate troops in prisoner exchanges...one of the dumbest policies in the history of war. Especially considering that halfway through the war, Confederate manpower was sorely lacking.

Grant and Sherman are the All Star generals of the Civil War. Especially Grant, who crushed Confederate commanders in three theaters. The greatest strategic battle of the Civil War was the Siege of Vicksburg, where Grant rolled up one Confederate army after another....as deep as you can get into Confederate territory. Lee couldn't even get Gettysburg right, and he was a ONE theater general that decimated other Confederate divisions of their manpower to keep the AoNV in the battle. Lee was a competent general at best, but he wasn't anywhere close to being a genius.

Going into Vicksburg was one of the stupidest decisions of the war to begin with. Maybe Lee's Army of Northern Virginia might've had a better showing if they hadn't been obsessed with kidnapping black Pennsylvanians and Marylanders and sending them South to be enslaved. Something they did to at least 1000 African Americans.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:31 PM
 
18,561 posts, read 7,370,877 times
Reputation: 11375
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorman View Post
The Confederacy was fighting for the right to rape, torture and murder human beings that were being bought and sold like cattle.
The truth is never enough for the Left. As bad as slavery was in this country, the Left has to lie to make it sound worse. It was not legal for slaveowners to murder their slaves. Even "mistreating" a slave was a crime in 10 Southern states, according to Lawrence Friedman.
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