What Do You Want To Hear About Afghanistan Plan Tonight? (soldiers, healthcare)

[ohhwanderlust]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

I would like to see us get out, I just don't see how that is possible until Afghanistan is truly ready to take over. I don't think we are ready to watch another Iraq, our departure would leave a void for ISIS and other terror groups in addition to the the Taliban. They will destroy the schools and set back the gains we made relative to democracy and women and they will kill the Afghans who supported us.


Right now we are losing, doing the same thing is not an option.

Let this be a lesson to us.

Don't invade a country and then act shocked that it ends up an unstable mess that we will forever have to babysit.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust

Let this be a lesson to us.

Don't invade a country and then act shocked that it ends up an unstable mess that we will forever have to babysit.

We don't have to, the baby's 16 years old and time for it to sink or swim on its own.

[BicoastalAnn]

Good poll. Interesting to see where everyone stands now, and we'll see what the reaction is after the speech.

[Mike from back east]

We all should listen carefully tonight. Does Donald Trump answer these questions?

1) What are America's vital national interests in Afghanistan?
2) Do our interests merit spilling more blood and treasure?
3) What are we trying to achieve in Afghanistan?
4) How will we know when we have achieved it?
5) What is the necessary, desireable end-state in Afghanistan?
6) Is the desired end-state there even achievable? How? At what cost? Paid by whom?

(Then again, has ANYONE ever answered any of these questions?)

Pundits expect Trump to tell us continuing the Hundred Year Afghan war will be different this time because:

1) Afghans will shoulder more of the burden. (How'd that work out for us in Vietnam? Did it even work there?)
2) We'll demand Afghans deal with the devastatingly horrible levels of corruption that has rotted every corner of Afghan officialdom. (Does this ever succeed in 3rd world cesspools? Isn't our Congress totally for sale?)
3) Afghan leaders assure us they will govern seriously. (We can't even do this! Government shutdown anyone?)

Then, ask yourself: do I believe any assertions by Trump, Mattis, et al?

1) Afghans haven't shouldered much of the burden for 16 years. Why must we do it for them, especially now?
2) Afghans haven't dealt with corruption effectively in the past hundred years. (Neither have we!)
3) Afghans leaders have shown no inclination or capabilty for good governance. (8 years of gridlock here!)

Listen to Trump tonight, think about the questions, ask yourself the three followups. After that, if you are satisfied to stay the course, so be it, your grandchildren can look forward to dying on a lonely ledge in the mountains of Afghanistan. Trump will tweet at 3AM tomorrow: "It's lovely there this time of year, I've a great hotel there, great hotel, the best, believe me."

Myself, I expect he'll announce another "surge" like we saw in Iraq. It reminds me of Vietnam where we were told "there's light at the end of the tunnel, send another 100,000 troops" and other such wishful thinking. We got it totally wrong in Vietnam and IMO we've gotten it totally wrong in Afghanistan for many years now.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

We all should listen carefully tonight. Does Donald Trump answer these questions?

1) What are America's vital national interests in Afghanistan?
2) Do our interests merit spilling more blood and treasure?
3) What are we trying to achieve in Afghanistan?
4) How will we know when we have achieved it?
5) What is the necessary, desireable end-state in Afghanistan?
6) Is the desired end-state there even achievable? How? At what cost? Paid by whom?

(Then again, has ANYONE ever answered any of these questions?)

Pundits expect Trump to tell us continuing the Hundred Year Afghan war will be different this time because:

1) Afghans will shoulder more of the burden. (How'd that work out for us in Vietnam? Did it even work there?)
2) We'll demand Afghans deal with the devastatingly horrible levels of corruption that has rotted every corner of Afghan officialdom. (Does this ever succeed in 3rd world cesspools? Isn't our Congress totally for sale?)
3) Afghan leaders assure us they will govern seriously. (We can't even do this! Government shutdown anyone?)

Then, ask yourself: do I believe any assertions by Trump, Mattis, et al?

1) Afghans haven't shouldered much of the burden for 16 years. Why must we do it for them, especially now?
2) Afghans haven't dealt with corruption effectively in the past hundred years. (Neither have we!)
3) Afghans leaders have shown no inclination or capabilty for good governance. (8 years of gridlock here!)

Listen to Trump tonight, think about the questions, ask yourself the three followups. After that, if you are satisfied to stay the course, so be it, your grandchildren can look forward to dying on a lonely ledge in the mountains of Afghanistan. Trump will tweet at 3AM tomorrow: "It's lovely there this time of year, I've a great hotel there, great hotel, the best, believe me."

Myself, I expect he'll announce another "surge" like we saw in Iraq. It reminds me of Vietnam where we were told "there's light at the end of the tunnel, send another 100,000 troops" and other such wishful thinking. We got it totally wrong in Vietnam and IMO we've gotten it totally wrong in Afghanistan for many years now.

I've heard some tout certain rare minerals as one of our interests in Afghanistan. I'd like to hear why we just can't trade with them as we do with Vietnam and BUY what we need rather than staying embroiled in a long war that's been of little benefit to the US other than to defense contractors and mercenaries.

[Enigma777]

Originally Posted by Old Gringo

I expect him to announce a huge boondoggle.

Rumor is that he's turning the Afghan war over to mercenaries led by the brother of his Secy of Education, Erik Prince. That'll pump many billions of taxpayer dollars into his account.

After all, his Blackwater outfit did SO well in Iraq.

Not sure handing the war over to some shady guy under investigation is the best thing for someone whith associates under investigation to do. Prince was a Flynn buddy. I don't think the generals will go for it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.d312b9724efc

https://theintercept.com/2017/04/05/...r-erik-prince/

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by burdell

I've heard some tout certain rare minerals as one of our interests in Afghanistan. I'd like to hear why we just can't trade with them as we do with Vietnam and BUY what we need rather than staying embroiled in a long war that's been of little benefit to the US other than to defense contractors and mercenaries.

Exactly. If we can trade with Communist China we can trade with an independent Afghanistan on a fair and equal basis. We don't need our troops there to assure we can buy the minerals and I'm not sure these minerals are all that big a deal strategically. In the early 2000s our huge firm, Intel, invested a billions dollars in Vietnam to build a chip fab plant, and while living in Colorado we bought bedroom furniture that was made in Vietnam.

It's time we exited Afghanistan and let them sink or swim.

Looking back, did you see the movie "Charlie Wilson's War" about how one of our GOP reps from TX insisted we arm the Afghan warlords to fight the USSR back in the late 1980s? Suppose we never armed those folks and let the USSR/Russia keep Afghanistan in their orbit. There's a good chance that Osama Bin Laden never would've set up his base there in the first place, in which place we'd not be in there now. Since we are there now I'm sure the Russians are helping the Taliban to make our lives miserable just as we made Russia miserable when they were there.

Tonight, I expect the first thing Trump will do is blame Obama, even though it was Obama who finally killed Bin Laden and launched a drone war to kill the enemy wherever they were hiding.

[blktoptrvl]

...as he is about to go back on another promise.

This speech being broadcast right now is obviously not written by that idiot.

He is about to send more American troops into harms way for no good cause.
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So here we go, Republicans are going to try to run another war without raising taxes. You all thought Obama raised the deficit? Wait till trump runs up another 5-10 trillion trying to win a fight that Russia gave up on after fifteen+ years and then we went there to fall into the same trap for 16+ years. And we are going to try to do Tax reform at the same time? Get ready for another crater in our economy.

• Conditions - Bush also said that - where did it get him (us)?
• Troops levels and secret plans - just like his plans for healthcare, for defeating ISIS in 30 days, and all the other BS. Doesn't he know that one of Nixon's big mistakes was trying to run a secret war with "secret plans" to win?
• Pakistan - he is going to try to pay them off or threaten them. I wonder if he plans to remove all Pakistani citizens - H1Bs - working here in America - or throw them into camps? And getting Pakistan and India to work together? Rocks of ruck.
• War criminals. We are about to go back down that row again.
• So, we are going to give the Afghanis more weapons and years of training so they can get on the first battlefield and turn over their weapons?
• And finally, more brag BS.
• North Korea? Nothing?

I feel sorry for people in the military, all that "We appreciate your service BS" is meaningless if we are going to go back to abusing the military.

[Ponderosa]

Same crap, new speaker.

[Rakin]

Refreshing to not hear I,I,I, Uh, Uh, uh from a teleprompter.