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Old 08-24-2017, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,904 posts, read 5,586,521 times
Reputation: 12963

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Its funny because, white women have benefited from black struggle. The affirmative action Trump's administration want to get rid of so badly, white women have gotten more of it than anyone else. So white women are eating off of black people's plate.

How wrong is that? The little bit of crumbs black people do get, white women have taken most of that away. In all honesty, every moral fight this country has gone through and progressed by, was off the back of black struggle. So the wealth and morals of this nation were built off of the least, the slaves. All I'm expecting is for the inheritors to receive their inheritance.



Yet there are people who complain about keeping statues up for the sake of history. History says black people are owed reparations, but it's okay to do revisionist history on that one right?

The claim for reparations aren't just for slavery by the way.
I've been biting my tongue until it's ready to bleed, but I have to say something here.

I'm a white woman. I am fully aware of the unearned privilege I've benefited from, and I hate it. I don't want to eat off anyone's plate, and I don't want to leave anyone with crumbs, or take those crumbs away.

Rather than fight, let's look at a few things. Black people had to fight hard to get the vote. So did women, regardless of color. Black women probably had to fight harder and longer than anyone.

I don't like the statues. I think they honor people who don't deserve it. I agree with you that there needs to be some way of repaying the descendants of slaves for their contribution to the country's wealth. I'm not sure what form that should take, and would be happy to hear any and all suggestions, so we can talk about them.

I agree with a lot of what you have said, and I want to support you, but dammit, stop talking about white women like we are the enemy. Some are. Most aren't.

 
Old 08-24-2017, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Virginia
1,743 posts, read 991,798 times
Reputation: 1768
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
So....and?
Obummer needs to dig deeply into his stash to help pay for reparations!
 
Old 08-24-2017, 07:58 PM
TKO
 
Location: On the Border
4,153 posts, read 4,278,102 times
Reputation: 3287
Want to know what a former slave back in the day thought about it all? Read this letter to his former master who wanted him to come back "home":

Letters of Note: To My Old Master

Dayton, Ohio,

August 7, 1865

To My Old Master, Colonel P.H. Anderson, Big Spring, Tennessee

Sir: I got your letter, and was glad to find that you had not forgotten Jourdon, and that you wanted me to come back and live with you again, promising to do better for me than anybody else can. I have often felt uneasy about you. I thought the Yankees would have hung you long before this, for harboring Rebs they found at your house. I suppose they never heard about your going to Colonel Martin's to kill the Union soldier that was left by his company in their stable. Although you shot at me twice before I left you, I did not want to hear of your being hurt, and am glad you are still living. It would do me good to go back to the dear old home again, and see Miss Mary and Miss Martha and Allen, Esther, Green, and Lee. Give my love to them all, and tell them I hope we will meet in the better world, if not in this. I would have gone back to see you all when I was working in the Nashville Hospital, but one of the neighbors told me that Henry intended to shoot me if he ever got a chance.

I want to know particularly what the good chance is you propose to give me. I am doing tolerably well here. I get twenty-five dollars a month, with victuals and clothing; have a comfortable home for Mandy,—the folks call her Mrs. Anderson,—and the children—Milly, Jane, and Grundy—go to school and are learning well. The teacher says Grundy has a head for a preacher. They go to Sunday school, and Mandy and me attend church regularly. We are kindly treated. Sometimes we overhear others saying, "Them colored people were slaves" down in Tennessee. The children feel hurt when they hear such remarks; but I tell them it was no disgrace in Tennessee to belong to Colonel Anderson. Many darkeys would have been proud, as I used to be, to call you master. Now if you will write and say what wages you will give me, I will be better able to decide whether it would be to my advantage to move back again.

As to my freedom, which you say I can have, there is nothing to be gained on that score, as I got my free papers in 1864 from the Provost-Marshal-General of the Department of Nashville. Mandy says she would be afraid to go back without some proof that you were disposed to treat us justly and kindly; and we have concluded to test your sincerity by asking you to send us our wages for the time we served you. This will make us forget and forgive old scores, and rely on your justice and friendship in the future. I served you faithfully for thirty-two years, and Mandy twenty years. At twenty-five dollars a month for me, and two dollars a week for Mandy, our earnings would amount to eleven thousand six hundred and eighty dollars. Add to this the interest for the time our wages have been kept back, and deduct what you paid for our clothing, and three doctor's visits to me, and pulling a tooth for Mandy, and the balance will show what we are in justice entitled to. Please send the money by Adams's Express, in care of V. Winters, Esq., Dayton, Ohio. If you fail to pay us for faithful labors in the past, we can have little faith in your promises in the future. We trust the good Maker has opened your eyes to the wrongs which you and your fathers have done to me and my fathers, in making us toil for you for generations without recompense. Here I draw my wages every Saturday night; but in Tennessee there was never any pay-day for the negroes any more than for the horses and cows. Surely there will be a day of reckoning for those who defraud the laborer of his hire.

In answering this letter, please state if there would be any safety for my Milly and Jane, who are now grown up, and both good-looking girls. You know how it was with poor Matilda and Catherine. I would rather stay here and starve—and die, if it come to that—than have my girls brought to shame by the violence and wickedness of their young masters. You will also please state if there has been any schools opened for the colored children in your neighborhood. The great desire of my life now is to give my children an education, and have them form virtuous habits.

Say howdy to George Carter, and thank him for taking the pistol from you when you were shooting at me.

From your old servant,

Jourdon Anderson.
 
Old 08-24-2017, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,251 posts, read 2,553,104 times
Reputation: 3127
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO View Post
Want to know what a former slave back in the day thought about it all? Read this letter to his former master who wanted him to come back "home":

Letters of Note: To My Old Master

Dayton, Ohio,

August 7, 1865

To My Old Master, Colonel P.H. Anderson, Big Spring, Tennessee

Sir: I got your letter, and was glad to find that you had not forgotten Jourdon, and that you wanted me to come back and live with you again, promising to do better for me than anybody else can. I have often felt uneasy about you. I thought the Yankees would have hung you long before this, for harboring Rebs they found at your house. I suppose they never heard about your going to Colonel Martin's to kill the Union soldier that was left by his company in their stable. Although you shot at me twice before I left you, I did not want to hear of your being hurt, and am glad you are still living. It would do me good to go back to the dear old home again, and see Miss Mary and Miss Martha and Allen, Esther, Green, and Lee. Give my love to them all, and tell them I hope we will meet in the better world, if not in this. I would have gone back to see you all when I was working in the Nashville Hospital, but one of the neighbors told me that Henry intended to shoot me if he ever got a chance.

I want to know particularly what the good chance is you propose to give me. I am doing tolerably well here. I get twenty-five dollars a month, with victuals and clothing; have a comfortable home for Mandy,—the folks call her Mrs. Anderson,—and the children—Milly, Jane, and Grundy—go to school and are learning well. The teacher says Grundy has a head for a preacher. They go to Sunday school, and Mandy and me attend church regularly. We are kindly treated. Sometimes we overhear others saying, "Them colored people were slaves" down in Tennessee. The children feel hurt when they hear such remarks; but I tell them it was no disgrace in Tennessee to belong to Colonel Anderson. Many darkeys would have been proud, as I used to be, to call you master. Now if you will write and say what wages you will give me, I will be better able to decide whether it would be to my advantage to move back again.

As to my freedom, which you say I can have, there is nothing to be gained on that score, as I got my free papers in 1864 from the Provost-Marshal-General of the Department of Nashville. Mandy says she would be afraid to go back without some proof that you were disposed to treat us justly and kindly; and we have concluded to test your sincerity by asking you to send us our wages for the time we served you. This will make us forget and forgive old scores, and rely on your justice and friendship in the future. I served you faithfully for thirty-two years, and Mandy twenty years. At twenty-five dollars a month for me, and two dollars a week for Mandy, our earnings would amount to eleven thousand six hundred and eighty dollars. Add to this the interest for the time our wages have been kept back, and deduct what you paid for our clothing, and three doctor's visits to me, and pulling a tooth for Mandy, and the balance will show what we are in justice entitled to. Please send the money by Adams's Express, in care of V. Winters, Esq., Dayton, Ohio. If you fail to pay us for faithful labors in the past, we can have little faith in your promises in the future. We trust the good Maker has opened your eyes to the wrongs which you and your fathers have done to me and my fathers, in making us toil for you for generations without recompense. Here I draw my wages every Saturday night; but in Tennessee there was never any pay-day for the negroes any more than for the horses and cows. Surely there will be a day of reckoning for those who defraud the laborer of his hire.

In answering this letter, please state if there would be any safety for my Milly and Jane, who are now grown up, and both good-looking girls. You know how it was with poor Matilda and Catherine. I would rather stay here and starve—and die, if it come to that—than have my girls brought to shame by the violence and wickedness of their young masters. You will also please state if there has been any schools opened for the colored children in your neighborhood. The great desire of my life now is to give my children an education, and have them form virtuous habits.

Say howdy to George Carter, and thank him for taking the pistol from you when you were shooting at me.

From your old servant,

Jourdon Anderson.
Debt slavery/peonage was alive and well during the reconstruction era. The South was largely rebuilt with "prisoner" labor. Blacks either falsely accused of crimes, or on trumped up charges to force them to work their sentences off.

He was smart not to go back.
 
Old 08-24-2017, 08:18 PM
 
Location: East Chicago, IN
3,100 posts, read 3,301,832 times
Reputation: 1697
Exactly, not all slaves were thankful to be in debted to their kindly old massa like some white people on here claim they were.
 
Old 08-24-2017, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,218 posts, read 22,361,490 times
Reputation: 23858
Some of my ancestors owned slaves too.

But that doesn't mean I ever liked the practice. Or that my parents and grand-parents did either.

I'm sure genealogy will turn up many of our ancestors who were slave owners; it was only a few years ago that I learned about those in my family tree. And even though they sold all their slaves when they packed up and moved west, it's still a fact I really dislike about my ancestry.

Human bondage was a dirty business. Thank God it ended.
 
Old 08-24-2017, 09:56 PM
TKO
 
Location: On the Border
4,153 posts, read 4,278,102 times
Reputation: 3287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings View Post
He was smart not to go back.
Without question. But the best thing about that letter is the subtle equivalent of a middle finger he gave to the sob who "owned" him by way of clever prose. Granted he had help with it, but it's magnificent.
 
Old 08-24-2017, 10:01 PM
 
15,063 posts, read 6,173,585 times
Reputation: 5124
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO View Post
Want to know what a former slave back in the day thought about it all? Read this letter to his former master who wanted him to come back "home":

Letters of Note: To My Old Master

Dayton, Ohio,

August 7, 1865

To My Old Master, Colonel P.H. Anderson, Big Spring, Tennessee

Sir: I got your letter, and was glad to find that you had not forgotten Jourdon, and that you wanted me to come back and live with you again, promising to do better for me than anybody else can. I have often felt uneasy about you. I thought the Yankees would have hung you long before this, for harboring Rebs they found at your house. I suppose they never heard about your going to Colonel Martin's to kill the Union soldier that was left by his company in their stable. Although you shot at me twice before I left you, I did not want to hear of your being hurt, and am glad you are still living. It would do me good to go back to the dear old home again, and see Miss Mary and Miss Martha and Allen, Esther, Green, and Lee. Give my love to them all, and tell them I hope we will meet in the better world, if not in this. I would have gone back to see you all when I was working in the Nashville Hospital, but one of the neighbors told me that Henry intended to shoot me if he ever got a chance.

I want to know particularly what the good chance is you propose to give me. I am doing tolerably well here. I get twenty-five dollars a month, with victuals and clothing; have a comfortable home for Mandy,—the folks call her Mrs. Anderson,—and the children—Milly, Jane, and Grundy—go to school and are learning well. The teacher says Grundy has a head for a preacher. They go to Sunday school, and Mandy and me attend church regularly. We are kindly treated. Sometimes we overhear others saying, "Them colored people were slaves" down in Tennessee. The children feel hurt when they hear such remarks; but I tell them it was no disgrace in Tennessee to belong to Colonel Anderson. Many darkeys would have been proud, as I used to be, to call you master. Now if you will write and say what wages you will give me, I will be better able to decide whether it would be to my advantage to move back again.

As to my freedom, which you say I can have, there is nothing to be gained on that score, as I got my free papers in 1864 from the Provost-Marshal-General of the Department of Nashville. Mandy says she would be afraid to go back without some proof that you were disposed to treat us justly and kindly; and we have concluded to test your sincerity by asking you to send us our wages for the time we served you. This will make us forget and forgive old scores, and rely on your justice and friendship in the future. I served you faithfully for thirty-two years, and Mandy twenty years. At twenty-five dollars a month for me, and two dollars a week for Mandy, our earnings would amount to eleven thousand six hundred and eighty dollars. Add to this the interest for the time our wages have been kept back, and deduct what you paid for our clothing, and three doctor's visits to me, and pulling a tooth for Mandy, and the balance will show what we are in justice entitled to. Please send the money by Adams's Express, in care of V. Winters, Esq., Dayton, Ohio. If you fail to pay us for faithful labors in the past, we can have little faith in your promises in the future. We trust the good Maker has opened your eyes to the wrongs which you and your fathers have done to me and my fathers, in making us toil for you for generations without recompense. Here I draw my wages every Saturday night; but in Tennessee there was never any pay-day for the negroes any more than for the horses and cows. Surely there will be a day of reckoning for those who defraud the laborer of his hire.

In answering this letter, please state if there would be any safety for my Milly and Jane, who are now grown up, and both good-looking girls. You know how it was with poor Matilda and Catherine. I would rather stay here and starve—and die, if it come to that—than have my girls brought to shame by the violence and wickedness of their young masters. You will also please state if there has been any schools opened for the colored children in your neighborhood. The great desire of my life now is to give my children an education, and have them form virtuous habits.

Say howdy to George Carter, and thank him for taking the pistol from you when you were shooting at me.

From your old servant,

Jourdon Anderson.
Thanks for sharing.
 
Old 08-25-2017, 02:59 AM
 
27,214 posts, read 46,745,966 times
Reputation: 15667
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
From 2007...

A new twist to an intriguing family history

Many people know that Democratic presidential candidate 's father was from Kenya and his mother from Kansas.

But an intriguing sliver of his family history has received almost no attention until now: It appears that forebears of his white mother owned slaves, according to genealogical research and census records.

The records - which had never been addressed publicly by the Illinois senator or his relatives - were first noted in an ancestry report compiled by William Addams Reitwiesner, who works at the Library of Congress and practices genealogy in his spare time.

...
According to the research, one of Obama's great-great-great-great grandfathers, George Washington Overall, owned two slaves who were recorded in the 1850 census in Nelson County, Ky. The same records show that one of Obama's great-great-great-great-great-grandmothers, Mary Duvall, also owned two slaves.


Just putting it out there for consumption.

They tried to walk it back a little by claiming it was a first draft.
Interesting!
 
Old 08-25-2017, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,904 posts, read 5,586,521 times
Reputation: 12963
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO View Post
Without question. But the best thing about that letter is the subtle equivalent of a middle finger he gave to the sob who "owned" him by way of clever prose. Granted he had help with it, but it's magnificent.
It really is. I'd love to have been there to see the look on his former "master's" face when he read it.
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