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Bill even told her to go to the rustbelt a few weeks before the election but she refused thinking she no longer needs those votes
an offer what? more of the same.......the rustbelt is not going to fall for that anymore, They remember Bill Clinton sold the country out with NAFTA. Sending Hillary Clinton to the rustbelt wouldnt have done anything because the platform of the Democrat party under Bill and Obama has been exposed.
They remember Obama screw them with Obamacare that raised their premiums and healthcare cost over 65% and their taxes.
The rustbelt no longer supports the democrat party platform of open borders, bad trade deals and globalism and they voted for the outsider Trump to give the finger at the establishment......there was nothing Hillary could do or offer and even if she did, she wasn't believable.
From these answers, your 'fellow Dems' appear to include a number of alt-right Trump fans. It would be great if they just went back to their liberal-bashing threads.
Anyhoo, Trump is a con artist salesman huckster. That's who he is and who he has always been. He talked a lot of suckers into believing he is someone he is not in order to get their vote. He's a phony through and through.
Hillary would have been a much better president than Trump. She's much much more intelligent, more experienced, respected around the world, and knows foreign and domestic policy and the law like the back of her hand. She is not a good politician. I am sick of listening to those that hate her and a bunch of misogynists spinning a hateful mythology that is total BS.
And, by the way, she received 3 million more votes than the current bozo in the oval office. It's time to get rid of gerrymandering and the electoral college and stop letting a a minority of the country tell the majority of the country what to do. It's a bully system befitting our bully president. That is where all the anger from the far left is coming from.
Let's see if the GOP can win fairly--no fixed districts. No giving rural areas more weight than they deserve. We are no longer an agrarian society, who recently freed a slave population, and we have now given the vote to everyone. The electoral college has got to go. The GOP has lost the popular vote in 6 out of the last 7 elections. There is something rotten in the US.
As for the future, the Dems have plenty of good candidates who we have not even heard from yet.The names tossed around the forum are not the candidates who will be running, just the ones the conservatives want to be the Dem candidates, as they probably cannot win. It will not be Liz Warren, Keith Ellison, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders. I think people will be very surprised at who will emerge as leaders and candidates. And after a couple of years of the current joker, people will be very receptive to smart sane people with real ideas and policies.
I do think Pelosi and Schumer need to step aside and let some of the younger and fresher candidates lead the party. But I believe all this hand wringing over the future of the Dems is not what will come to pass. The election was less than one year ago. It's way too early to predict anything, and with the downhill slide Trump is on, I am not worried at all. The electorate is becoming more diverse every year. They are not going to be into old white men pushing their return-to-the-50s fairy tale in the next election.
We have real problems that need real answers--not tweets from an ignorant self-important, inexperienced and immature child who does not want the job, or his inexperienced unqualified daughter and son-in-law. This is becoming more apparent with every domestic crisis we encounter. Nor do we really a need a bunch of generals and Wall Street vets running the country, which is what we have. We've been that route already, it failed, and it is the country that got screwed.
This post is what is wrong with the Democratic Party.
If you didn't like Hillary so you voted Trump, you are a misogynist that is easily fooled. Let me give you a little wake up call: BOTH were corrupt liars.
The entire post drips with condescension and condemnation of half the country.
The post also lacks an understanding of how the electoral college works as it worries over congressional district lines.
To do better, mainstream democrats should denounce and jettison the bigotry that this poster shows to half the country.
P.S. To be clear, there are vacuous-elitist-jerks in the Republican party too, but the ones in the Democratic party are growing and turning off a lot of blue collar whites that had been loyal Democratic voters.
Last edited by michiganmoon; 08-22-2017 at 05:02 AM..
Catgirl. -- I applaud you for your sincerity in trying to improve the Democrat party.
I was once a democrat (now independent leaning conservative) and believe we need two healthy parties for checks and balances, so I am curious if you've learned anything from the responses to this thread?
Today, one of your leaders/spokespersons (Howard Dean) said if you vote republican in 2018, you are a racist. Do you see the pattern here that posters are trying to point out to you?
Last edited by mountainrose; 08-22-2017 at 05:43 AM..
This post is what is wrong with the Democratic Party.
If you didn't like Hillary so you voted Trump, you are a misogynist that is easily fooled. Let me give you a little wake up call: BOTH were corrupt liars.
The entire post drips with condescension and condemnation of half the country.
The post also lacks an understanding of how the electoral college works as it worries over congressional district lines.
To do better, mainstream democrats should denounce and jettison the bigotry that this poster shows to half the country.
Actually, I agree with part of the post.
Gerrymandering is a problem, a very old one, and both parties have been guilty of it.
I also have some issues with the EC, because it does give more weight to the votes of people living in lightly populated states and much, much less to those of people who live in densely populated ones with lots of big cities. That seems wrong to me, regardless of the outcome.
However, there are lots of threads on here already that address that, and I'm not eager for this one to join their number. For one thing, it's not likely to change anytime soon. For another, I am hoping we can stick to the original question: how can the Democratic party more effectively serve the people?
FWIW, I do agree that there is a lot of contempt from some of my fellow liberals for people in "flyover country." When I see everyone who lives in a red state written off as a stupid, knuckle-dragging hick or a snake-handling religious fanatic, it offends me just as much as when I see a conservative accuse all Democrats of being effete snobs, whiny kids with degrees in basket-weaving, limousine liberals, or welfare queens. The truth is more complicated than that. Truth usually is.
A few people have asked why the Democrats have a better agenda. One of the biggest reasons, in my opinion, is health care. It's time we make sure everyone is covered, one way or another. Not only is this the right thing to do, from a humanitarian perspective, it just plain smart. Right now, you either pay for it yourself (very expensive), get it through your job, if your job provides decent insurance, or are covered by Medicare or Medicaid. I think there are a lot of people who believe all poor people are covered by Medicaid. THEY ARE NOT, so let's get that little myth out of the way right off the bat.
Universal health care would accomplish a lot of things, aside from a healthier population. As things stand now, people who would like to leave a job they hate, but which has good benefits, may be itching to start their own business or even work as an independent contractor, yet forego that dream because the loss of their health insurance would make an already risky move downright impossible. It seems to me that the security of universal health care would unleash a tremendous amount of human potential.
Another argument in favor is the plight of many elderly. Medicare does not pay for long term care in a nursing or assisted living facility, and an awful lot of older people end up relying on Medicaid. Problem is, they have to almost completely bankrupt themselves to qualify, and God help them if they have given money to their kids during the dreaded "look-back" period. They will be accused of trying to cheat the system, even if that was the furthest thing from their minds. People hate estate taxes? This is the harshest "death tax" in existence, and with an aging population it is only going to get worse. Not only is it bankrupting too many elderly, it can be devastating to their children, who often give up their own jobs and financial security to become caregivers.
I know this would not be free, but I think people are forgetting one thing. Whatever tax increase would be necessary to fund UHC would be offset by the fact that individuals and businesses would no longer be paying insurance premiums. The cost would not be "in addition to," it would be "instead of." I don't pretend to know exactly what the details would be, but I know that if we can put men on the moon, we figure out how to do this.
I know that health care is only one issue, and I'll get to others later, but this is one thing I am especially passionate about, because I have experienced some of it firsthand. I hope others will post their suggestions, too.
Catgirl. -- I applaud you for your sincerity in trying to improve the Democrat party.
I was once a democrat (now independent leaning conservative) and believe we need two healthy parties for checks and balances, so I am curious if you've learned anything from the responses to this thread?
Today, one of your leaders/spokespersons (Howard Dean) said if you vote republican in 2018, you are a racist. Do you see the pattern here that posters are trying to point out to you?
I just looked for video of that statement, and I believe I found it. Is this what you are referring to?
If it is, that's not quite what he said. It came close, and I don't necessarily agree with him, as Trump will not be on the ticket in 2018. But no, he didn't say exactly what you are claiming he did. For the record, I don't agree with him. I may not agree with the Republican platform, but I do not think supporting it automatically makes one a racist. I do think that Trump himself has waffled quite a bit in his response to self-avowed racists who claim that their agenda is his agenda.
As for your applause...thank you, I think. I appreciate the compliment, but I do feel a bit like I have been patted on the head and given a cookie. :/
What have I learned? I am not sure. I see a lot of anger, but I already knew about that. I have known about it for a long time, which is one of the reasons that when Hillary was riding high in the polls, I kept thinking to myself...wait, wait, let's not get too cocky about this. When Trump won, I was disappointed, devastated, even, but not surprised.
May I ask you what prompted you to leave the Democrats? Was it things you have mentioned, or were there other issues involved?
I honestly wouldn't worry about it. If you're pro-authoritarianism, pro big-powerful-government, pro-socially engineered utopia, pro-central planning, pro-post-modernism, pro-surveillance, pro-UBI, and pro-equality of outcome, I think your victory over rationality and individuality is inevitable and just a matter of time. Take heart!
Your thinking is why the Dems in recent years have lost so many Governorships, Statehouses, the US Senate & House, and the White House. Neither Hillary, Bernie, or Warren speak or spoke to the middle, though Bernie might have if the party leadership hadn't gotten behind Hillary so early. Warren is far too condescending and elitist to appeal to the middle, so go with her and the Dems will lose another election. Right now there are not any sane voices getting any air time on the Democratic side. Pelosi, Schumer, and Waters are doing great harm to the party.
I am part of the middle and as I said in another post I voted for Carter, Reagan, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton I, Clinton I, Bush II, Bush II, Obama, Romney, Trump. I only got one wrong out of 11 elections. so hear me out. The Dems abandoned the middle during the Obama years and since last year's election their actions have only served to further alienate the middle. We in the middle are that silent majority that used to be talked about. We don't go to protests nor do we speak up much in the public dialog, but we do vote and right now the message we continue to get from the Democratic Party is that we're not wanted nor are our concerns their concerns.
I get what you are saying... but Warren... speaks to the powerful wealthy and the games they make against the people. Yes, it is at a level above the common person, because as common people we don't have the money and power to manipulate the system. But, there needs to be a voice that stands up to the powerful and the manipulative elite, because they are the force that has made difficulty for the common people.
One can talk to the common people all day long... but if the wealthy continue their games, it only further decimates the common people.
Common people did not ship away the jobs, the elite wealthy did it. Common people did not make health care unaffordable, the wealthy elite did. When they busted Unions and Lost so many job sponsored medical programs, it left the door open for the wealthy to impose higher cost on the people.
The voice cannot ignore the wealthy elite.
Trump and Republican Governors can talk to the common people all day, but as long as the wealthy elite control the money, and manipulate the system... it confounds any ideals that either Trump, Governors of such can do, whether they are Republican or Democratic.
When people are paid under $10 & $20 on a broad average and the elites are making $Billion, the Executives are making $10's and $100's of millions, and the Degree riders are making 6 figures... that is "imbalance".... it is what impacts the working common people and make their lives difficult.
Example: Well Fargo.. they walked away with $100 of million, after shafting the people by criminal acts... Warren spoke up, but where was the Republican Outrage to have voices that backed her. As a result these people walked away with "stolen money" and no prosecution. That is why there needs to be voices that speak up against the wealthy elites. The common people are the ones who got ripped strips and defrauded, they had no power to prevent it. Ultimately no one but people like Warren who called them up, but ... when someone calls out these criminals, they need other people with voice to back it up and support them. Otherwise, we will have more and more Well Fargo rip off's of the common people.
Trump could not stop Carrier or others from doing exactly what they had planned. We need political voices that speak up against Big Industry and the Elite Wealthy...
No one can just turn around and give the common people what they want. Not when what they want is controlled by the wealthy elites. That is why the Democrats go after the Wealthy Elite system manipulators.
Why so many Republican refuse to acknowledge that, and think just claiming to push bluster as Trump has done to the working poor... it has not helped the working poor.
He thinks giving the wealthy more Tax Breaks is the answer, when that has never worked before and won't work now.
I believe the answer for America is vocational and technical training on a massive scale and massive funds for small business development is the force that can stand against the wealthy elites, and create business in areas that the wealthy elites refuse to invest, build or make industry work.
We have to start from the bottom, and we need people who fight those elites at the top.
1. The Democrats need to forget about this number: $250,000.00. There are too many people whose combined income is a lot more than that. They need to give tax cuts to people who make under 1 million/year.
2. Take care of the people who have played by the rules to get ahead in life.
3. Welfare needs reform...again. Don't give women raises for having another kid. Give them raises for:
a. Finishing high school,
b. Finishing community college,
c. Finishing college
They need to show they're trying to be good parents: kids must have good school attendance record, have at least C average, etc.
Do not take assistance away if mother marries or makes modest wage gains. Good behavior is to be rewarded not punished. Provide help with daycare AND birth control.
Set up timeline for completion of goals. Welfare cannot be a way of life.
4. The Dept of Education needs to create a vocational education track after 9th grade. Seek input of industry and business. Arizona does it at community college level. It should be started earlier.
Let the fringes rest for a while. People are tired of them.
I'm not a Democrat but that's my 2 cents
Very good suggestions, but almost all of it goes against Democrats' ideology. They absolutely demonize those who've worked hard to achieve, and pander to those who wish to slack.
One of the reasons Trump won the election is because he was able to so completely dominate the national conversation. I wonder sometimes if we (myself included) are letting the same thing happen again.
I'm not saying he shouldn't be criticized. He deserves it, richly. But we have to have something more to offer than simply being anti-Trump. If we don't start talking more about the things we want to accomplish, like better health care and decent wages, we are going to be just as screwed in 2020 as we were in 2016.
I am interested in hearing people's ideas about how to address this, and particularly interested in hearing from Democrats who jumped ship to support Trump, and what prompted that decision. I don't mean "Reagan Democrats" who have been voting Republican for decades, I mean the recently departed.
I honestly believe that we have a better agenda, or I wouldn't be a Dem. How can we get our message out there more effectively?
Your only agenda is ripping the heart and soul out of the U.S. How is that "better".
Your party sucks, your ideology amounts to slavery (Dem. party was created to support slavery, and still enslaves people today in different ways), and the people you are and embrace are vermin.
You should all just go away and stay away before things get ugly, and the 2nd Amend. comes into play as the Founders intended it to. You are driving us to Civil War, and probably deliberately so.
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It would be great if they just went back to their liberal-bashing threads.
