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One of the reasons Trump won the election is because he was able to so completely dominate the national conversation. I wonder sometimes if we (myself included) are letting the same thing happen again.
I'm not saying he shouldn't be criticized. He deserves it, richly. But we have to have something more to offer than simply being anti-Trump. If we don't start talking more about the things we want to accomplish, like better health care and decent wages, we are going to be just as screwed in 2020 as we were in 2016.
I am interested in hearing people's ideas about how to address this, and particularly interested in hearing from Democrats who jumped ship to support Trump, and what prompted that decision. I don't mean "Reagan Democrats" who have been voting Republican for decades, I mean the recently departed.
I honestly believe that we have a better agenda, or I wouldn't be a Dem. How can we get our message out there more effectively?
As an Independent, that some times supports the Dems in elections due to my left of center leanings I can tell you what an outsider sees going on in the Democratic Party, for what it is worth:
1) To answer your question first, Yes, your Party has lost their focus, the dramatic difference between Sanders and Hillary was startling. While I liked Sanders I could not support him because even though he does have some good ideas some of his ideas would bankrupt us quickly, plus I am not sure how well he would handle foreign affairs when they get ugly. Hillary was the complete opposite and her stand on some issues, the 2nd A Rights to name just one, turned me off, though I did think she would have done better with foreign affairs and be better than Trump in that area even today. Thing is you have a Power base in your Party that if they did not outright deny Sanders the nomination they sure made sure it was known which they preferred. Not really a fair contest in my opinion. Thing is Hillary was unacceptable to many voters, Dems and Indes alike, many simply skipped the election or did not vote for either, unbelievable that the Democratic were so stupid as to pick about the only candidate that was as unpopular as trump, but they did.
2) Look at who you have leading the Party these days, most are old and most are disliked by many within your own Party. You need new faces, younger faces, I know they are there, but do they really want to job that ends your career and put them through hell like the last couple of Presidents and their Families have had to endure and still do.
3) Do NOT run on not being Trump, you may not be running against him anyway, in fact it is doubtful he will be the opponent for the Whitehouse. Try something different and for me would be refreshing, run on the issues, come up with workable solutions to the issues and make your case to the American People in the elections, that goes for All Democratic Candidates. Treat the American People with respect by giving them the ideas and facts and let them decide.
4) While the actions of the GOP and trump may help drive voters to the voting booth but do your part in getting people out to vote, count on nothing.
5 Start sitting down among yourselves and try and come up with an actual Party Platform that the majority can agree with, right now it seems all over the place.
Good Luck, maybe this will be the best thing that could happen to your Party. Oh, from the looks of it the GOP is going to have to come to the same point, as we see there is more than a little division among them also and with the Dems, the GOP is going to have to come to grips with it sooner or later.
Democrats only know how to hate Trump and in their mind our stock market is free falling, our economy has collapsed, our society is rebuilding after months of nuclear war.
THIS IS THE PICTURE THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA HAS PUT IN THEIR MINDS, AMAZING LOL!
This is an honest question .... Do you know anyone at all who actually voted for Donald Trump?
IF you do - do you think of them as Racists & Nazis? IF you do - do you call them that to their face?
I listen to the media - CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CBS and the pundits and anchors and they actually say these things about Trump voters. I actually have a problem with this sort of nonsense and am positive that I'm not alone. The "Core problem" is not just poor messaging and no plan ... It's the Demonization of US Citizens because they did not vote for Hillary Clinton.
This Demonization is getting set in concrete - and the backlash to it will also be set in concrete.
Cannot answer for them, but yes we know several people that voted for Trump, none are racists except one and yes, have called him that to his face more than once, he does not care, he is proud of that fact. Yes, we still get along just fine, politics and even race are not the only things that define a person.
These would all be winning issues for the Dems. But I would argue they also need new leadership. They will not ever get a House majority again with Pelosi at the helm.
I agree that it's time for Pelosi to go. I would argue the same about McConnell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
See, this is one of the core problems with the Dems, their only message is "at least we are not the other guy", which is the message Hillary put out.
People who typically vote Dem, like me, do not want to hear this, we want to hear what policies are you putting forth that will improve my life and the lives of others and the US in general. What I do not want to hear is that I should vote for a candidate just because he/she is not Trump or who ever.
It's hard for the party not in power and in an off year - to espouse a consistent message. What was the R party message before Trump came along?
I also tire of hearing R's beoytch about 'identity politics" when Trump's campaign was ALL ABOUT white identity politics. They never acknowledge that.
Number one I think Dems need a stronger economic message but we have our own divisions within the party. There is still the Bernie wing vs the moderate wing. Much like there is division within the R party. Difference is - they were willing to put their differences aside to put someone in the WH and the D's were not.
Democrats only know how to hate Trump and in their mind our stock market is free falling, our economy has collapsed, our society is rebuilding after months of nuclear war.
THIS IS THE PICTURE THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA HAS PUT IN THEIR MINDS, AMAZING LOL!
Turn off the news and things look pretty good!
Maybe you should watch something other than Science Fiction Theater for a while.
I think we should have realized the anti-hillary train that really started in 04. I remember listening to Hannity the night Dubya got reelected and he started talking about how the enemy was now Hillary because she was the presumptive 08 dnc candidate, that just kept going, '16 was the result of the conservative "long game". People like myself really thought it was her turn, my personal doctrine lines up better with Bernie but I didnt see him as electable, I regret that.
You have to wonder how much the GOP talk radio complex played a part on the GOP pivot to populism, at any rate I am going on a tangent, right, our platform should be "see, you should have *uc*ing voted" .
I dont have a problem with the trump negative attacks, can it backfire? sure, but trumps temperament makes it hard to pass up, its not the tease but the reaction to it.
To summarize we need a Bernie-lite platform, I do think its paramount that the word amnesty is not brought up, if we promise amnesty we are done.
Maybe you should watch something other than Science Fiction Theater for a while.
You mean CNN?
Our stock market is at all time highs
We are not at nuclear war
Our economy is doing quite well
Deportations are at all time highs
Illegal immigration are at all time lows
There have been a lot of great executive orders signed
Overall, things are looking great!
However, if you watch CNN, you'd think our stock market crashed, nuclear war has destroyed half the country, Nazis are rounding up minorities and putting them into concentration camps and our economy has a 20% unemployment rate.
This is an honest question .... Do you know anyone at all who actually voted for Donald Trump?
IF you do - do you think of them as Racists & Nazis? IF you do - do you call them that to their face?
I listen to the media - CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CBS and the pundits and anchors and they actually say these things about Trump voters. I actually have a problem with this sort of nonsense and am positive that I'm not alone. The "Core problem" is not just poor messaging and no plan ... It's the Demonization of US Citizens because they did not vote for Hillary Clinton.
This Demonization is getting set in concrete - and the backlash to it will also be set in concrete.
Yes, I do. Some of my family I would say have racist views, yes. Not all of of my friends.
That said - you act like the Demonization occurs only in one direction.
Snowflakes ring a bell? Demoncrats? Lock her up? (Talk about demonization). Certainly I could go on.
Lack of respect flows freely in BOTH directions.
I certainly have a very good idea what Trump supporters think of 'liberals".
Cannot answer for them, but yes we know several people that voted for Trump, none are racists except one and yes, have called him that to his face more than once, he does not care, he is proud of that fact. Yes, we still get along just fine, politics and even race are not the only things that define a person.
I liked your earlier post a lot, it was one of the first ones that actually addressed the question seriously. There is one thing I don't understand, though, and that is, how can you be okay with someone who is proud of being racist? Race and politics don't define a person, but actual racism, proudly embraced? I don't understand how get along with this person, unless it's in hopes of changing his heart.
One of the reasons Trump won the election is because he was able to so completely dominate the national conversation. I wonder sometimes if we (myself included) are letting the same thing happen again.
I'm not saying he shouldn't be criticized. He deserves it, richly. But we have to have something more to offer than simply being anti-Trump. If we don't start talking more about the things we want to accomplish, like better health care and decent wages, we are going to be just as screwed in 2020 as we were in 2016.
I am interested in hearing people's ideas about how to address this, and particularly interested in hearing from Democrats who jumped ship to support Trump, and what prompted that decision. I don't mean "Reagan Democrats" who have been voting Republican for decades, I mean the recently departed.
I honestly believe that we have a better agenda, or I wouldn't be a Dem. How can we get our message out there more effectively?
Gee someone wants my opinion finally. That's a surprise.
The fact is democrats have been talking nothing but hate and racism for two years with delusional accusations about Russia thrown in. No one can say what they want to accomplish on other issues because for the most part they don't mention them. They have done nothing in congress but obstruct. Their idea on compromise is to stake out an initial position that prevents any compromise. If they can't dictate terms they won't participate. They put issues of social justice ahead of jobs, wages and health care.
You say you have a better agenda but no one has heard it.
Nearly every thread on this forum for two years has been a hate something about Trump thread. The only break in doing that has been what happens in bathrooms or bedrooms none of which put food on the table or gets anyone a job or a wage increase. Support for criminals and terrorist along with open borders and a total lack of concern for safety now and in the future has been the policy with no change in sight. How can you get your message out is not so much the problem. Its not effective because no one is buying the same old crap anymore. Tearing down America is a losing position. Try building something for a change.
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