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Old 08-24-2017, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
3,640 posts, read 39,493 times
Reputation: 470

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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1B21NW

Trump talks tough on Pakistan's 'terrorist' havens, but options scarce

Is Trump correct to blame Pakistan for American's failure in Afghanistan?

Pakistan and its public has suffered more than any country from terrorists since American and other forces went into Afghanistan. Taliban, who were ousted from power with the help from Americans, not only fought the coalition forces for years but also targeted Pakistan because Pakistan had sided with the coalition forces.

The terrorists were travelling into Pakistan over the border from Afghanistan and attacking first the Pakistan military quarters and then they attacked a school in which over 130 children of military families were being educated.

Peshawar attack: Taliban release images of gunmen who killed 132 children as they claim massacre was justified | The Independent

Since then Pakistan military has been clearing the border area from the terrorists from Afghanistan with great success. Just as Pakistan is to declare war on terrorists to be a great success, a bombshell from Trump threatening Pakistan of harboring terrorist havens. This is the price one pays to side with the Americans. Taliban regard Pakistan their enemy and now Trump too is blaming Pakistan. Pakistanis can't believe that Trump has made Pakistan the scapegoat for American's failed policy in Afghanistan. They can see that he is business man and can see business opportunities with the Indians.

Russia and China have openly defended Pakistan against Trump's criticism of Pakistan:

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/22...rump-criticism

What the hell is Trump doing? What does he expect to achieve from this outburst against Pakistan? To please India or to eliminate terrorism or planning to attack either Pakistan or Iran?
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,521,957 times
Reputation: 24780
JMHO...

I think this "USA vs Pakistan relations are strained" matter is for public consumption.

In practice, I think official relations between the two are very cooperative.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
3,640 posts, read 39,493 times
Reputation: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
JMHO...

I think this "USA vs Pakistan relations are strained" matter is for public consumption.

In practice, I think official relations between the two are very cooperative.
There's serious doubt about the relationship being cooperative now. Russia and China have wasted no time in coming on the Pakistan's side.

US administration is waiting for a response from Pakistan. Pakistan is in a shock from Trump's outburst and is reassessing whether Trump is reliable friend or a very dangerous enemy being openly "cooperative" with India, Pakistan's main enemy, and against Pakistan.

This is going to push Pakistan away from relying on US for its support. Pakistan's foreign minister, instead of coming to Washington, has decided to go to Beijing to further strengthen the relationship with China. Trump doesn't know what he is doing by blaming Pakistan for the problems in Afghanistan.

There are still many terrorists in safe havens in Northern Afghanistan. I believe Afghan administration can't cope with Taliban in Afghanistan and is, like US, blaming Pakistan for their failure.

I understand that Pakistani military has successfully pushed back the Taliban that were attacking in Pakistan. Many are killed in Pakistan and others are pushed back to Afghanistan. Here is more detail as to what's happening there:

The Taliban began a resurgence due to several factors. At the end of 2014, the US and NATO combat mission ended and the withdrawal of most foreign forces from Afghanistan reduced the risk the Taliban faced of being bombed and raided. In June 2014, the Pakistani military's Operation Zarb-e-Azb, launched in the North Waziristan tribal area in June 2014, dislodged thousands of mainly Uzbek, Arab and Pakistani militants, who flooded into Afghanistan and swelled the Taliban's ranks. The group was further emboldened by the comparative lack of interest from the international community and the diversion of its attention to crisis in other parts of the world, such as Syria, Iraq and Ukraine. Afghan security forces also lack certain capabilities and equipment, especially air power and reconnaissance. The political infighting in the central government in Kabul and the apparent weakness in governance at different levels are also exploited by the Taliban. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in...2%80%93present)

US should recognize the sacrifices and successes of Pakistani military in killing or driving the terrorists out of Pakistan. Instead, Trump is now blaming Pakistan for harboring those terrorists when they have been driven out of Pakistan just as they were driven into Pakistan from Afghanistan by the coalition forces. Uzbek fighters are also joining them.

Pakistanis have managed to get rid of terrorists who have been attacking in Pakistan. Afghanistan is unable to do the same and Trump has been fooled by both Indians and Afghan administrations to think that it is Pakistani terrorists in Afghanistan.

As for eliminating terrorism, I don't believe it can be eliminated in the region until there is some kind of political peace settlement about both Kashmir and Palestine. Terrorism will drop suddenly once political solutions to these two long-standing problems is achieved. Until then, it can only increase regardless of war on terror now Trump style.

.
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Old 08-24-2017, 04:03 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, La. USA
6,354 posts, read 3,652,271 times
Reputation: 2522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1B21NW

Trump talks tough on Pakistan's 'terrorist' havens, but options scarce


What the hell is Trump doing? What does he expect to achieve from this outburst against Pakistan? To please India or to eliminate terrorism or planning to attack either Pakistan or Iran?
Trump (the former democrat) has to rally and keep his new republican base, and you rally the republican base with 'talk' of welfare, Obamacare, guns, God, Muslims, crooked Hillary, and being a strong leader that does not let other countries push America around. And when your actions are to get votes and keep your base logic is out the window.

For instance Trumps travel ban gives ISIS more power. more supporters, and more members (while Trumps travel ban does not even ban Saudi Arabia the country where most of the Sept 11 hijackers came from.)

Trump ban is boon for ISIS recruitment, experts say - CNNPolitics
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominic.../#23be883c21b0
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...hkN/story.html


And now Trump is using a similar ISIS strengthening strategy on Pakistan (and Pakistan has 70–90 nuclear weapons.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakist...tion#Stockpile

Donald Trump is a power seeker, fame seeker, manipulator, and liar (and I personally believe he is stressed by low poll numbers and being locked up in the White House.) But hopefully enough republicans will one day begin to see that Trump is an idiot (and then he won't have as much influence to do things like cause a Pakistani nuclear weapon to be detonated in America.)

Last edited by chad3; 08-24-2017 at 04:30 PM..
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Old 08-24-2017, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,521,957 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Pakistanis have managed to get rid of terrorists who have been attacking in Pakistan. Afghanistan is unable to do the same and Trump has been fooled by both Indians and Afghan administrations to think that it is Pakistani terrorists in Afghanistan.
As I posted previously, I think tRump's bluster is nothing more than hot air, designed to appeal to his shrinking base of support who still see him as a "strong man" rather than the weakling he truly is. They expect tough talk from him and he's eager to deliver it to them.

At an official level, between the governments of the US and Pakistan, I suspect there's much closer cooperation than either government would like to admit to. After all, the USA is not popular in Pakistan. But many top level terrorists have been captured/killed there and I seriously doubt that would have occurred w/o the consent and cooperation of the Pakistani government and their intel services.

Besides, a casual glimpse at a globe makes it clear that America's access to Afghanistan clearly passes through Pakistan.
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Old 08-24-2017, 05:21 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,479 posts, read 6,878,349 times
Reputation: 16973
Trump's all bluster and hot air. When Kelly, Mattis and McMaster talk tough I'll listen.
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Old 08-24-2017, 05:31 PM
 
34,300 posts, read 15,640,522 times
Reputation: 13053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1B21NW

Trump talks tough on Pakistan's 'terrorist' havens, but options scarce

Is Trump correct to blame Pakistan for American's failure in Afghanistan?

Pakistan and its public has suffered more than any country from terrorists since American and other forces went into Afghanistan. Taliban, who were ousted from power with the help from Americans, not only fought the coalition forces for years but also targeted Pakistan because Pakistan had sided with the coalition forces.

The terrorists were travelling into Pakistan over the border from Afghanistan and attacking first the Pakistan military quarters and then they attacked a school in which over 130 children of military families were being educated.

Peshawar attack: Taliban release images of gunmen who killed 132 children as they claim massacre was justified | The Independent

Since then Pakistan military has been clearing the border area from the terrorists from Afghanistan with great success. Just as Pakistan is to declare war on terrorists to be a great success, a bombshell from Trump threatening Pakistan of harboring terrorist havens. This is the price one pays to side with the Americans. Taliban regard Pakistan their enemy and now Trump too is blaming Pakistan. Pakistanis can't believe that Trump has made Pakistan the scapegoat for American's failed policy in Afghanistan. They can see that he is business man and can see business opportunities with the Indians.

Russia and China have openly defended Pakistan against Trump's criticism of Pakistan:

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/22...rump-criticism

What the hell is Trump doing? What does he expect to achieve from this outburst against Pakistan? To please India or to eliminate terrorism or planning to attack either Pakistan or Iran?
If there were no terrorist in Pakistan why was Obama killing them there with drones ?
Pakistan complained bitterly and often about it. Why ?
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Old 08-24-2017, 05:37 PM
 
Location: USA
30,995 posts, read 22,045,160 times
Reputation: 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
If there were no terrorist in Pakistan why was Obama killing them there with drones ?
Pakistan complained bitterly and often about it. Why ?
And where did that guy Bin Laden hide out for years undetected Wasn't Canada (Didn't even look like he was hiding, being just a mile from a military base)
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Old 08-24-2017, 05:37 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,179,016 times
Reputation: 18824
What DOESN'T he talk tough on at this point?

Lemme know when he actually sounds conciliatory on an issue.
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Old 08-24-2017, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,200 posts, read 27,575,665 times
Reputation: 16046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1B21NW

Trump talks tough on Pakistan's 'terrorist' havens, but options scarce

Is Trump correct to blame Pakistan for American's failure in Afghanistan?

Pakistan and its public has suffered more than any country from terrorists since American and other forces went into Afghanistan. Taliban, who were ousted from power with the help from Americans, not only fought the coalition forces for years but also targeted Pakistan because Pakistan had sided with the coalition forces.

The terrorists were travelling into Pakistan over the border from Afghanistan and attacking first the Pakistan military quarters and then they attacked a school in which over 130 children of military families were being educated.

Peshawar attack: Taliban release images of gunmen who killed 132 children as they claim massacre was justified | The Independent

Since then Pakistan military has been clearing the border area from the terrorists from Afghanistan with great success. Just as Pakistan is to declare war on terrorists to be a great success, a bombshell from Trump threatening Pakistan of harboring terrorist havens. This is the price one pays to side with the Americans. Taliban regard Pakistan their enemy and now Trump too is blaming Pakistan. Pakistanis can't believe that Trump has made Pakistan the scapegoat for American's failed policy in Afghanistan. They can see that he is business man and can see business opportunities with the Indians.

Russia and China have openly defended Pakistan against Trump's criticism of Pakistan:

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/22...rump-criticism

What the hell is Trump doing? What does he expect to achieve from this outburst against Pakistan? To please India or to eliminate terrorism or planning to attack either Pakistan or Iran?
I don't think there is an easy answer.

The reality is that when the war started, Afghani refugees fled to Pakistan using those unsecured locations. Additionally, United States (who did not want Afghanistan to fall into Soviet hands), pressured Pakistan into taking more refugees and helping Afghanistan out, this is where the problem all started.

Things are never just that simple. There are so many different factors that has led up to what you see today. It is the doing of evil men, but also of innocents that could have no idea of what they were doing.

I do hope, Pakistan can actually build a peaceful relationship with India.
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