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Old 08-28-2017, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Volunteer State
1,243 posts, read 1,143,663 times
Reputation: 2159

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Most salary exempt FTEs work extra hours as well, on top of the standard 2080 hour work year. The bottom line is that teachers get an extra 10-12 weeks of non-work that other salary professions do not, and the average salary reflects that. Is is roughly 3/4 what 2,080 salaries would be for comparable work/education reqs/etc, because it is roughly 3/4 as many days worked. This is not difficult math.
Wrong.

And your error is a common one: the ASSumption that no work goes on during those weeks. And your ASSumption would be so, so wrong.

But I'm sure you'll not read any further in my attempts to educate you on your error, so I think I'll not waste my time.

I mean, why would I? You know more about my job than I do, right?

You've been educated, therefore you how to educate, correct?

You've sat on the student's side of the desk, therefore you know EVERYTHING that goes on on the teacher's side, right?

God, the arrogance...

Last edited by Starman71; 08-28-2017 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 08-28-2017, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
11,119 posts, read 5,562,262 times
Reputation: 16596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
$45K for what is essentially a part time job doesn't seem like half bad money. At 8 hours a day and 180 school days a year, that works out to $31.25 an hour. Just how much SHOULD taxpayers be on the hook for here?

There's a number of people on this forum, who show the results of a sub-standard education. I guess they just don't want to provide students today, with anything better.
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Old 08-28-2017, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,809 posts, read 26,403,608 times
Reputation: 25705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald View Post
There's a number of people on this forum, who show the results of a sub-standard education. I guess they just don't want to provide students today, with anything better.
There certainly are. A portion seem to go into the education industry.
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:19 PM
 
31,949 posts, read 14,955,784 times
Reputation: 13593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
$45K for what is essentially a part time job doesn't seem like half bad money. At 8 hours a day and 180 school days a year, that works out to $31.25 an hour. Just how much SHOULD taxpayers be on the hook for here?
8 hours a day is teaching. They go home and grade papers and plan the next day. This is no part time job
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:48 AM
 
Location: AZ
3,321 posts, read 1,095,343 times
Reputation: 1608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
There certainly are. A portion seem to go into the education industry.
Why'd/how'd you get your engineering degree if you don't value education?
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
31,341 posts, read 14,176,868 times
Reputation: 27858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
$45K for what is essentially a part time job doesn't seem like half bad money. At 8 hours a day and 180 school days a year, that works out to $31.25 an hour. Just how much SHOULD taxpayers be on the hook for here?
1-2-3....


Someone is about to jump in and tell you about all of the 'off the clock' hours that the teachers put in.
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
31,341 posts, read 14,176,868 times
Reputation: 27858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Do you know any teachers? I do. Most of them spend their nights and weekends grading papers and preparing lesson plans. They go in early to set things up, for staff meetings, for bus duty, crossing duty, and often don't get a lunch break because they have lunch room duty or playground. Then they stay late tutoring kids or meeting with parents. Many work 60 hours or more a week. In my state they buy school supplies from their own pockets for their kids. In any case, it is a 9 to 10 month job not 180 instructional days any more than any other salaried job is based on hours worked.
A 9 or 10 month job (let's call it 9.5 to be fair) still leaves more than 10 weeks of vacation time.
That's more than double what I get.
Rough job.
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:56 AM
 
13,853 posts, read 5,564,410 times
Reputation: 8534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman71 View Post
Wrong.

And your error is a common one: the ASSumption that no work goes on during those weeks. And your ASSumption would be so, so wrong.

But I'm sure you'll not read any further in my attempts to educate you on your error, so I think I'll not waste my time.

I mean, why would I? You know more about my job than I do, right?

You've been educated, therefore you how to educate, correct?

You've sat on the student's side of the desk, therefore you know EVERYTHING that goes on on the teacher's side, right?

God, the arrogance...
The students are not in school in the summer. So if there is work going on, what work? If it is full time all summer long, and you are not being paid for it...well that makes you a fool, not someone to have sympathy for.

If you work at another job during those weeks, I would guess you do so for pay? If not, again, that's on you.

I don't teach, and you don't do my job. One thing that always happens in these "teachers am teh underpaidz" threads is teachers hollering at people for not knowing how their job works while not knowing a freaking thing about the jobs of anyone they are hollering at. Do you think every job besides teaching is just people kicking their feet up on the desk, reading te WSJ and smoking cigars for a few hours per day? Is your sum total of knowledge about the life of corporate salary exempt workers what you see shown on Mad Men?

The bottom line is, most teachers have summer off. on average, about 10 weeks. I have three relatives who are teachers, and they do not work at all in the summer. They are in school like 2 days after the kids in June, and then they show up like 3-4 days before them in August, but they have 10 weeks off in the summer. They have 2 weeks at XMas. They have a week at Spring Break. And none of them spend extra hours every single day and all weekend long grading papers and preparing lessons. Any of the extra work they do for coaching, tutoring, etc...THEY GET EXTRA PAY for it. They have absurd benefits that are superior to virtually any corporation I know of, and they pay less per month for those benefits. In short, it's a pretty good gig and none of them ever complain besides the standard "my workday sucked" complaints that everyone in any job has.

And employment in the United States is VOLUNTARY. You have what compensation you agreed to when you accepted the employment contract we refer to as "the job." Same goes for every teacher in Oklahoma. None of them were assigned that task by some supreme dictator. They chose it. They can choose something else if the current conditions of employment are unsatisfactory.
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Volunteer State
1,243 posts, read 1,143,663 times
Reputation: 2159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
The students are not in school in the summer. So if there is work going on, what work? If it is full time all summer long, and you are not being paid for it...well that makes you a fool, not someone to have sympathy for.
This right here tells me you have absolutely no damn clue as to what an educator does. This illustrates the very misconception that education stops when the students are not present. And you would be so wrong, that I actually would feel sorry for you, if I didn't already hold you in contempt for your blatant and willful ignorance.

I spent at least 5 separate days during the summer, back in my school room crunching data on the standardized exams given in May (State and AP exams).

I spent 3 days going to a STEM seminar.
I spent another 3 days teaching a STEM class.
Then I had to come in 2 days earlier than when we were supposed to (July 26) in order to get my room ready because the powers-that-be fill in the "work days" with so much administrivia that we actually have no time to during theses days to prep for the school's beginning.
And next summer, I will repeat all of those things above AND take a 3-week (9-5) class for continued certification.

So... let's see. I KNOW what I do in my job, and you don't know what I do for my job. Now who's the fool?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
If you work at another job during those weeks, I would guess you do so for pay? If not, again, that's on you.
I don't have the time to do so. So your point is moot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
I don't teach, and you don't do my job.One thing that always happens in these "teachers am teh underpaidz" threads is teachers hollering at people for not knowing how their job works while not knowing a freaking thing about the jobs of anyone they are hollering at. Do you think every job besides teaching is just people kicking their feet up on the desk, reading te WSJ and smoking cigars for a few hours per day? Is your sum total of knowledge about the life of corporate salary exempt workers what you see shown on Mad Men?
Point out one time - just one bloody time - when you've seen a single teacher in any of the dozens of subforums and posts do what you just mentioned.

I beg you! Please prove it to me that a single teacher has done it.

You can't. You won't be able to. And you know why? Because we aren't stupid enough to criticize that which we do not do. We get enough of that $h!t from people like you, and we're not hypocritical enough or moronic enough to blatantly talk about that for which we have no experience.

But why do you think that you do? Why do you think it's right for you to tell a teacher that they are wrong about the profession in which they've worked in for decades, but which you have ZERO experience? Are you that arrogant to think you know more about my job than I do?!?!?

Do you hear me talking about your job? I don't know nor care what you do, and I - any every other teacher that posts here - will never do that, because we know how wrong and stupid it is.

Maybe you need to learn a little more humility before talking about that which you no little. You'd look less foolish and garner more respect


Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
The bottom line is, most teachers have summer off. on average, about 10 weeks. I have three relatives who are teachers, and they do not work at all in the summer. They are in school like 2 days after the kids in June, and then they show up like 3-4 days before them in August, but they have 10 weeks off in the summer. They have 2 weeks at XMas. They have a week at Spring Break. And none of them spend extra hours every single day and all weekend long grading papers and preparing lessons. Any of the extra work they do for coaching, tutoring, etc...THEY GET EXTRA PAY for it. They have absurd benefits that are superior to virtually any corporation I know of, and they pay less per month for those benefits. In short, it's a pretty good gig and none of them ever complain besides the standard "my workday sucked" complaints that everyone in any job has.

And employment in the United States is VOLUNTARY. You have what compensation you agreed to when you accepted the employment contract we refer to as "the job." Same goes for every teacher in Oklahoma. None of them were assigned that task by some supreme dictator. They chose it. They can choose something else if the current conditions of employment are unsatisfactory.
The rest of your post was just bilge and fertilizer, which merits no comment. But...

You talk about knowing a few teachers.... out of 3,200,000 million in the public K-12 U.S. Schools. Are you truly that naive or... whatever to believe they represent the rest of the 3,199,995 teachers in the nation? That they represent the total sum of all working conditions in every public K-12 school? If you truly think that, then I guess you're right. The Public School Systems sure failed you. You didn't learn a bit of logic or rational thinking while there.

From all lazy-assed, over-paid, under-worked, whiny teachers across America, we apologize.
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:20 PM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
16,964 posts, read 12,534,154 times
Reputation: 8881
Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru5555 View Post
If you think schoolteachers day's end when the school-day is over, i've got a bridge to sell you.....
Depends on the teacher. I live in a neighborhood with some. I know one, just retired that was there until LATE every day. I know another... not quite so much.
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