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I am black so would be included in "black people."
Again, wealth is not income. If I lose my job I'll get UEI like everyone else and I'll find a new job like black people do when they lose jobs.
Where I live $42-$43k is well above our city median income. Most black peopel today don't have 4-5 kids. Married black couples make more than $42-$43K on average.
In regards to selling off properties if I lose my job, I'd take a hit in regards to wealth. People fail to realize that appraised value does not equal market rate value. I doubt I'd get what the properties are worth on paper if I sold them. I may, but I might not. Selling properties is also, oftentimes a long process and takes at least 30-90 days so I would never depend on selling a home for income. Income is much more important than wealth in people's day to day lives so focusing on increasing income as a means to build wealth, should be top priority for black families.
In regards to highlighting successful black families, I did so because you insinuated that black farmers in the past were too ignorant to run farms because they were the descendants of slaves. Slaves were not entirely ignorant and neither were their children or grandchildren. That generation IMO was one of great strides for black Americans. The Reconstruction period through 1900 saw huge gains for blacks in education in particular and at that time there were black farmers who owned their own lands or who, due to having a skillset passed down, owned a business or were a tradesman/woman. I do a lot of black history research so know that the majority of blacks were poverty stricken but also know there has always been a skilled trades/professional class in black America and a wealthier professional/bourgeoisie class in black America.
Also a majority of whites were also poverty stricken post Civil War through the 1900s. I've stated frequently on the forums here that slavery itself was not as detrimental to blacks in this country compared to the oppression and discrimination that the demoraphic faces from 1865 to 1980. If that period had not been so restrictive to blacks, we would not be behind statistically today IMO because I don't believe that blacks are incapable of educating ourselves, earning a decent income, and building wealth for our families. Now that those barriers have been reduced, I don't see a need for advocating for reparations (which won't happen) when we could be banding together and assisting our family and community members with achieving their educational, career, entrepreneurship, and wealth building goals.
I definitely agree if it weren't for the terrorism that went on after slavery, and black people were allowed to participate as full American citizens from the end of slavery, reparations would have never been needed. There would be no wealth gap today, and quite frankly, everyone would have benefited. You would have black businesses on the scale of Walmart and Amazon, which would in turn have created jobs for everyone in this competitive market.
Yet that didn't happen, and we were locked out during a very crucial time of wealth building in our nation. Doing the things you mentioned in terms of building wealth, won't help us like it would have help us in the early 1900s. Monopolies have made sure of that, and this government isn't busting them up like they used to. Heck, you now have a president that is a snotty billionaire. Who regularly mistreated people who worked for him, even to the point he didn't pay them. (You can look up on google how he stiff contractors who did work for him.)
With that being the case, black people's (as a community) only hope is for government to step in and give us benefits to boost our economic standing. If Trump issued reparations, or gave black descendants of slaves benefits, he would be the greatest president in the history of the country. Better than the first "black" president in Obama, and better than Lincoln.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1
I've seen many articles about that - home ownership and yes, I agree. Also - wealth is often handed down from generation to generation so .. we did get a little head start on that.
Now how to fix it ~ not up to me.
You can help advocate on black people's behalf. The country would be a much better place and a well oiled machine with a prosperous black class. It would create competition that would provide everyone with real paying jobs, and not the cheap wages established companies (monopolies) dole out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
So on the bold, you believe that the majority of black people are incapable of investing in a 401k or educating themselves for a career with a higher income....
That is a very odd thing to think. For you to believe that we are incapable of doing the above and buying homes in higher rates, IMO means you feel we cannot do anything to help ourselves and need a savior. That attitude IMO is the biggest issue in black America today - the idea that we are inferior to other people and are in need of a savior. If you work together in your community toward a common goal, you can achieve some wealth. Economic lynching is not a thing today for blacks like it was in the past.
And again, wealth is not income. People do not live off the value of their property. Most are still paying for their properties that are giving them the bulk of their wealth.
So again, those wealth building tools won't carry us like it might have carried us back in the day. This is a new economy that is seeing profit increase, while wages remain the same. It's hard for white people to build themselves up, and they have a net worth of 100k in addition to their income.
Without government benefits and yes, reparations, the black community as a whole is going the way of the dinosaur. People like Beyonce, Oprah, and Lebron James might be alright, but the overwhelming majority of us will be destined to poverty and prison. We will really see it once the baby boomers die off. There are studies that show black kids who grew up in "middle class" families, are becoming poor when they reach adulthood. So most of black wealth is in the hand of the baby boomers, and they haven't exactly done all the things they should have done to ensure their wealth is passed on.
This is not a marketplace where we are bartering and buying and selling. What I am stating is mathematical fact. If there are 100 black people, 90 working and 10 unemployed, with the average working making 25k a year and there are 100 white people and the average worker makes 50K with 5 of them unemployed, he racial economic gaps are not born from how blacks and whites cohabit....but rather, from the FACT that the average individual in each race being unequal in economic status. Hence, regardless of how you group together black individual income, it will ALWAYS add up to less than a similar grouping of white individuals whose average income is greater. Marriage cannot increase and does not increase individual income. Hence, marriage is NOT the cause of these income and wealth gaps between blacks and whites.
You never include the kind of jobs being done by the 90 people working for either race. Look at college degrees by subject area then by race. Blacks are least likely of any race to enroll in and then graduate from STEM majors, while they are most likely of any race to enroll in and graduate from a social services major.
Not for nothing, but what subject one majors in is...wait for it...an individual choice. You have to go person by person, major by major, school by school and do the detailed comparison before you can simply say "blacks earn less than whites, therefore inequality!" Same for any employment statistic. Job by job, person by person, resume by resume. The assumption is that every factor pertaining to employment other than race is exactly equal across all people, so race can and must be the only reason for the disparity, but that is not the case. Blacks are over-represented in degree fields that are low paying, and under-represented in degree fields that are high paying.
All other factors besides race ARE NOT EQUAL, so to make a valid comparison, you have to evaluate "100 black people with Chemical Engineering degrees from a top 100 school working in the Dallas/Ft Worth metro area in the field of Chemical Engineering" against "100 white people with Chemical Engineering degrees from a top 100 school working in the Dallas/Ft Worth metro area in the field of Chemical Engineering"
When you do this, as many economists have done when debunking the "women earn 77 cents for every dollar men earn" lie (most repeated and blatant lie ever), the results end up showing either proper equality, or a slight inequality that favors the group thought to be oppressed.
Coming from a two parent home is the ultimate advantage in life. There is no stronger "privilege" than parenting.
Basic real estate education is the next one. People who don't grow up in a home their parents own, often time think of home ownership as some unachievable dream.
The millions living in the rust belt - often who have (or had, before they broke up....) two parents AND a home....are not any more immune to meth and opiate addiction, drunkenness or lack of education and ambition.
Once again - I think there is difference in monday morning quarterbacking than in looking at the root causes.
You never include the kind of jobs being done by the 90 people working for either race. Look at college degrees by subject area then by race. Blacks are least likely of any race to enroll in and then graduate from STEM majors, while they are most likely of any race to enroll in and graduate from a social services major.
Not for nothing, but what subject one majors in is...wait for it...an individual choice. You have to go person by person, major by major, school by school and do the detailed comparison before you can simply say "blacks earn less than whites, therefore inequality!" Same for any employment statistic. Job by job, person by person, resume by resume. The assumption is that every factor pertaining to employment other than race is exactly equal across all people, so race can and must be the only reason for the disparity, but that is not the case. Blacks are over-represented in degree fields that are low paying, and under-represented in degree fields that are high paying.
All other factors besides race ARE NOT EQUAL, so to make a valid comparison, you have to evaluate "100 black people with Chemical Engineering degrees from a top 100 school working in the Dallas/Ft Worth metro area in the field of Chemical Engineering" against "100 white people with Chemical Engineering degrees from a top 100 school working in the Dallas/Ft Worth metro area in the field of Chemical Engineering"
When you do this, as many economists have done when debunking the "women earn 77 cents for every dollar men earn" lie (most repeated and blatant lie ever), the results end up showing either proper equality, or a slight inequality that favors the group thought to be oppressed.
Again, like I pointed out before. High wages for an occupation is a direct result of scarcity. The law of supply and demand governs market pay (above the government imposed minimum). When supply exceeds demand in certain skill sets....the pay falls or stagnates. If everyone got STEM degrees....guess what.....the wages would fall too.
My point is that SCARCITY is what creates high salaries. You cannot educate the masses and maintain scarcity....and hence high incomes.
Again, like I pointed out before. High wages for an occupation is a direct result of scarcity. The law of supply and demand governs market pay (above the government imposed minimum). When supply exceeds demand in certain skill sets....the pay falls or stagnates. If everyone got STEM degrees....guess what.....the wages would fall too.
My point is that SCARCITY is what creates high salaries. You cannot educate the masses and maintain scarcity....and hence high incomes.
I understand scarcity just fine, but you cannot compare someone with a masters degree in Architecture to someone with a 2 year degree in criminal justice and decide that their income difference is based on race.
To prove it is purely race based, all other factors MUST BE EQUAL. So give me a population of adult age individuals where exactly everything is equal (or as close to equal as possible) and the only tangible, observable difference is race, and then maybe we can have the discussion. Until then, you're taking one difference to be the ONLY difference, discarding every other difference out of hand, and declaring a conclusion. That is a failed statistical analysis.
You are missing way too many details to make a valid case.
You never include the kind of jobs being done by the 90 people working for either race. Look at college degrees by subject area then by race. Blacks are least likely of any race to enroll in and then graduate from STEM majors, while they are most likely of any race to enroll in and graduate from a social services major.
Not for nothing, but what subject one majors in is...wait for it...an individual choice. You have to go person by person, major by major, school by school and do the detailed comparison before you can simply say "blacks earn less than whites, therefore inequality!" Same for any employment statistic. Job by job, person by person, resume by resume. The assumption is that every factor pertaining to employment other than race is exactly equal across all people, so race can and must be the only reason for the disparity, but that is not the case. Blacks are over-represented in degree fields that are low paying, and under-represented in degree fields that are high paying.
All other factors besides race ARE NOT EQUAL, so to make a valid comparison, you have to evaluate "100 black people with Chemical Engineering degrees from a top 100 school working in the Dallas/Ft Worth metro area in the field of Chemical Engineering" against "100 white people with Chemical Engineering degrees from a top 100 school working in the Dallas/Ft Worth metro area in the field of Chemical Engineering"
When you do this, as many economists have done when debunking the "women earn 77 cents for every dollar men earn" lie (most repeated and blatant lie ever), the results end up showing either proper equality, or a slight inequality that favors the group thought to be oppressed.
In fact, the center's study found that even black students who majored in high-demand fields such as engineering fare only slightly better than those who spent their college years earning liberal arts degrees. Between 2010 and 2012, 10 percent of black college graduates with engineering degrees and 11 percent of those with math and computer-related degrees were unemployed, compared with 6 percent of all engineering graduates and 7 percent of all those who focused their studies on math and computers.
So, overall during this time in 2012, black unemployment was around 12%. With those who had engineering degrees, their numbers at best were 10% unemployment. A measly 2% difference. Plus this is not even taking into account how many employed black engineers today, are actually descendants of black immigrants and not black descendants of slaves.
If the government can guarantee us engineering jobs, that would be something and I certainly would tell black people to get into those fields. The problem with how things are now, companies still discriminate.
I understand scarcity just fine, but you cannot compare someone with a masters degree in Architecture to someone with a 2 year degree in criminal justice and decide that their income difference is based on race.
To prove it is purely race based, all other factors MUST BE EQUAL. So give me a population of adult age individuals where exactly everything is equal (or as close to equal as possible) and the only tangible, observable difference is race, and then maybe we can have the discussion. Until then, you're taking one difference to be the ONLY difference, discarding every other difference out of hand, and declaring a conclusion. That is a failed statistical analysis.
You are missing way too many details to make a valid case.
I don't know why I got off and followed your tangent. First you all will argue that blacks are not being educated....then when blacks educate themselves you say its because we are not getting the education in the right fields. When we get the education in the right fields, they you will be saying its because we lack the years of experience, then when we get the experience you will say its because of....yadda yadd
So, overall during this time in 2012, black unemployment was around 12%. With those who had engineering degrees, their numbers at best were 10% unemployment. A measly 2% difference. Plus this is not even taking into account how many employed black engineers today, are actually descendants of black immigrants and not black descendants of slaves.
If the government can guarantee us engineering jobs, that would be something and I certainly would tell black people to get into those fields. The problem with how things are now, companies still discriminate.
Still haven't proven that all factors besides race are equal, therefore, it could be any number of factors other than or including race.
Most blacks who get engineering degrees get Civil Engineering degrees, which pays less than ChemE, ElectE, AeroE, etc. Of the exact same subset in Engineering degrees, were the schools the same? The GPAs? The internships and extracurricular activities related to future employment? Are the job seeking geographies and employment opportunities therein equal? None of these details and differences are listed and controlled for, therefore any or all could be factors besides race that explain the disparity.
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