Kamala Harris announces she will co-sponsor single-payer healthcare (Afghanistan, ideology, terrorists)

[BruSan]

Originally Posted by 10 2 4

Yes, our society is, indeed, rotting as self-reliance, self-determination, and respect for one's obligations to his fellow citizens to not be a parasite, is, indeed, shriveling.


Thanks for helping point out how bad things are devolving to. Single payer, would serve to be the coup-de-grace on our society.


PS Sam is NOT your uncle, much less your milch cow.

Yep; it's perfectly illustrated you've hit on the exact point why The U.S. is rotting from within....parasites!

Although it should cause you pause as to why yours is the only country rotting from within of all the ones with universal or single payer healthcare. Could it be there's another underlying cause as to why your society is rotting?

Maybe it's the 'every man for himself, I've got mine sc**w you' ethic some of you cling to so strongly. You're tending to conflate your "parasites".

Single payer might just be the bit that turns things around for you. A tangible illustration of America's ability to remain a humane and compassionate bastion that cares for each and every citizen equally.

I won't be holding my breath.

[10 2 4]

Originally Posted by BruSan

Yep; it's perfectly illustrated you've hit on the exact point why The U.S. is rotting from within....parasites!

Although it should cause you pause as to why yours is the only country rotting from within of all the ones with universal or single payer healthcare. Could it be there's another underlying cause as to why your society is rotting?

Maybe it's the 'every man for himself, I've got mine sc**w you' ethic some of you cling to so strongly. You're tending to conflate your "parasites".

Single payer might just be the bit that turns things around for you. A tangible illustration of America's ability to remain a humane and compassionate bastion that cares for each and every citizen equally.

I won't be holding my breath.

Single payer is a disaster in Canada. Aniimals in Canada have much better health care than people do because Vet Med. is market based, and an animal can get high-end diagnostics and treatments same day or next, at much reduced costs, because of the absence of OPM.


The last thing I want is the Federal Government, whose job is very thin (read the powers granted to the Fed. Gov't by the Constitution), caring for me individually. That is NOT the role of the central government.


Furthermore, if you think that the push for single payer is to provide quality health care to all Americans, you are naïve as can be. It is about gaining power and control over the American people. Read how Castro came to power.


It is sad that people such as yourself can't seem to live their lives without resorting to Uncle Sam, the most inept and incompetent, heartless and soul-less institution around, to nipple-feed you.


The government can't even deliver quality healthcare to the Veterans, and you want to nationalize that kind of incompetence. No doubt, you would also want to ban private health care as well.


Read this - it outlines the powers of the Federal Government. Note that there is nothing in there remotely authorizing single-payer.


Powers of the Fed. Govt:


Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

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To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

[LEFT]

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;


To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;


To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;[/LEFT]

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To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

[LEFT]

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;


To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;


To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;


To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;


To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;


To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;


To provide and maintain a Navy;


To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;


To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;


To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;


To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.[/LEFT]

[10 2 4]

Originally Posted by Hoonose

I haven't able to raise my charges for Medicare since the '80's. Single payer means the Feds set the reimbursements for all my services. So no, as a medical professional I could not raise my prices. And you should now see why most docs do not want single payer.

Single payer will mean more services rendered overall. And mostly at lower cost per due to central cost controls, similar to Medicare. More people covered, means more services rendered. Plus more gets done with many patients that previously had been delayed or left out entirely due to cost or inconvenience. More unnecessary stuff will also get done, unless there are new barriers to referrals, testing and procedures as compared to Medicare.

HC is unlike auto body work. Body work is very predictable with little uncertainty. There is not great deal of difference in cost and procedures with repairs one vehicle to the next. Certainly not as compared to the medical realm. And if it doesn't get done, you can still live a full life of health, happiness and productivity.

I would vote to keep private insurance along with a public option. As a doc and as a patient. As a patient I will want to spend more to get better service, broader and more complete coverage and wider networks. As a doc I would want the ability to continue to choose who I care for and what plans to join. But as far as rendering care, as a doc I try my best to render the same level of high quality medical service, and in all my patients' best interests. Irrespective of their insurance.

Single payer would destroy the American Healthcare industry, as it has in Canada. Research what the founder of that system recently said about his own system. In short, "it is in crisis", and he wants to reinstitute competition instead of bureaucratic rationing (and all goods and services must be rationed in one manner or the other, usually (and most-intelligently) by the marketplace).


My personal preference would be to have more Kaiser-type HMO institutions, vs Insurance combined with independent providers model.

[10 2 4]

Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale

This is ridiculous. There's no reason why states can't handle health care on their own. It's clear that we've got huge differences between the states in how their citizens want to deal with the costs of health care. Fifty state laboratories working on the problem seems a lot smarter to me than trying to force a one-size-fits-all solution on the entire country.

I agree completely that this issue is not "Federal" business.

[GregW]

I am all in favor of Federalized single payer health payment plan is available for everyone, including myself, and posters like the most fortunate "Mason3000" pay for it.


If you are looking for a fine example of "American parasitism" just ask your president for his business income/loss statements and his tax returns. Look for entries in the "Bribes from Putin" column.

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by 10 2 4

Single payer would destroy the American Healthcare industry, as it has in Canada. Research what the founder of that system recently said about his own system. In short, "it is in crisis", and he wants to reinstitute competition instead of bureaucratic rationing (and all goods and services must be rationed in one manner or the other, usually (and most-intelligently) by the marketplace).


My personal preference would be to have more Kaiser-type HMO institutions, vs Insurance combined with independent providers model.

I don't support single payer. But 'destroy'? Hardly. Docs would be pissed as hell I can tell you. So we'd better pay them enough.

I would support a public option. But keep the privates. HMO's can work. But they are a real pain the azz for both docs and patients compared to Medicare.

The only mega rich person I've personally known was an HMO CEO. They make big money denying care.

[10 2 4]

Originally Posted by GregW

I am all in favor of Federalized single payer health payment plan is available for everyone, including myself, and posters like the most fortunate "Mason3000" pay for it.


If you are looking for a fine example of "American parasitism" just ask your president for his business income/loss statements and his tax returns. Look for entries in the "Bribes from Putin" column.

Yes, the takers are always in favor of "freebies" paid for by the sweat of someone else's brow.


The rest is absolutely-stupid.

[10 2 4]

Originally Posted by Hoonose

I don't support single payer. But 'destroy'? Hardly. Docs would be pissed as hell I can tell you. So we'd better pay them enough.

I would support a public option. But keep the privates. HMO's can work. But they are a real pain the azz for both docs and patients compared to Medicare.

The only mega rich person I've personally known was an HMO CEO. They make big money denying care.

A friend of mine survived two cases of Cancer courtesy of Kaiser.

Uncle Sam is well-beyond broke because of various "freebie" programs? This will be the ultimate "freebie" that would be anything but free.

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by 10 2 4

A friend of mine survived two cases of Cancer courtesy of Kaiser.

Uncle Sam is well-beyond broke because of various "freebie" programs? This will be the ultimate "freebie" that would be anything but free.

We could do away with a lot of the freebie programs. Like the wars.

[10 2 4]

Originally Posted by pknopp

We could do away with a lot of the freebie programs. Like the wars.

The wars aren't freebies, they are Constitutionally authorized and amount to the most important role of the Federal government. And even if we ended all the wars, and let our enemies surround, and then defeat us, there would still be no money - a little less debt, perhaps, but still no money, AND, more importantly, Single Payer would still be a stupid idea promoted by two major groups.


The Parasite-class who wants to be nipple-fed on the sweat of somebody else's brow.
The Ruling-class who seek to increase their power and control over the people.


Which group do you belong to?