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Old 09-05-2017, 02:43 PM
 
29,980 posts, read 11,568,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
Copy / paste from earlier thread:

We will adapt to the detrimental effects of a warmer planet, take advantage of the benefits of a warmer planet, move organically (not through top-down planning) toward a solar energy grid while continuing to privately research next-generation fission and first-generation fusion power, develop ever more efficient agricultural methods and strains as well as the "growing" of protein-rich meat, and use the exponential growth in our scientific understanding and engineering prowess to place a limit on warming and eventually, in the fullness of time, control the overall climate trajectory.
Good points.

The most fanatical on the left seem to miss the fact that our technology is growing exponentially and to try to restrict commerce with carbon taxes and retrofitting everything is going to put a huge burden on people, especially the lower and working class. Where utility costs and costs to buy and operate their vehicles will go through the roof. There is a great possibility that we will come up with better solutions within the decade that won't harm most peoples lives and be cost effective.

Reality is this is as much political as it is saving the planet. The left wants to social engineer wealth redistribution through increasing income taxes and carbon the so called bad guys. Also pick which businesses should exist. And decrease the power of successful nations distributing wealth to poorer ones. The fact that all the ideas to save the planet from climate change are all deep seated leftist ideas proves this.

I am fine with a cleaner planet but let it happen organically not through propaganda and brainwashing.
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:49 PM
 
2,212 posts, read 1,068,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
Got your attention? Good, glad to hear it.

We all know it's real, the earth's climate has been changing for eons. The question is what role human activity plays in the process. Some say the role is critical, some say it matters not at all.

The thing is, do we really have to believe in man-made climate change to agree that pollution is bad, and that fossil fuels tend to pollute? Look at pictures of London during the Industrial Revolution. Look at pictures of the smog in Beijing. Do you want to breathe that? Look at what coal mining does to the water. Do you want to drink that, or water crops with it?

I'm not saying do away with fossil fuels - that's neither practical nor possible right now. But I am saying it is smart to keep developing cleaner, greener sources of energy, and use them as often as possible. I will never, ever understand why anyone would be opposed to that.
No one is opposed to cleaner fuels. Most though are opposed to government carbon credit taxes.
Taxation will not fix anything and neither will trading carbon credits on Wall Street.

And while countries may implement changes you also have countries like China that will never do that.
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:55 PM
 
20,410 posts, read 12,323,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
Really?

My point was that even if climate change was a complete hoax, it would still be smart for us to do the things that are recommended to help avoid it.

Do you require further clarification?
well... if we are talking about alternative sources of energy, that's going to happen. There is no way to stop it and its a good thing.

if we are talking about doing the recommended things that cause poor people to suffer, and for middle income people to spend a far larger portion of their income on energy and other "climate change recommendations" then that's a terrible idea.

if we are talking about wealth transfer from first world countries to non-first world countries, lets be really clear here. It is the middle class that will be devastated by that kind of thing. We are better off seeking wins for them, while not linking it to losses for us. We can do that.

It is always better to move toward a cleaner world.
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,658 posts, read 6,255,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwinkelman View Post
The most fanatical on the left seem to miss the fact that our technology is growing exponentially...
Yup.

And there's this too: //www.city-data.com/forum/polit...-cheap-us.html
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:39 PM
 
29,980 posts, read 11,568,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
so it comes down to politics.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,658 posts, read 6,255,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwinkelman View Post
so it comes down to politics.
Eh? I was thinking that thread (and article) shows that it doesn't.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:54 PM
 
29,980 posts, read 11,568,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
Eh? I was thinking that thread (and article) shows that it doesn't.
Not you sorry. If things are moving in the right direction the only reason there is the fanatical push and sky is falling attitude over climate change is for political reasons.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,658 posts, read 6,255,086 times
Reputation: 4111
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwinkelman View Post
Not you sorry. If things are moving in the right direction the only reason there is the fanatical push and sky is falling attitude over climate change is for political reasons.
Ahh, underestood and agreed.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Denver
1,330 posts, read 694,907 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by neko_mimi View Post
When people start demanding "cleaner, greener sources", companies will start producing it. Right now, people are demanding the cheapest sources, not "cleaner, greener" ones. Why force companies to produce something that people aren't demanding?
Sometimes regulation helps increase demand.

Look at automobiles. When they first came out, seatbelts were optional. Then airbags were luxury features. Now backup cameras are required. Now, because cars are required to have a backup camera, thus a color LCD display standard, more and more people are demanding features like Android Auto.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:59 PM
 
45,104 posts, read 26,262,470 times
Reputation: 24834
Quote:
Originally Posted by illinoisphotographer View Post
Sometimes regulation helps increase demand.

Look at automobiles. When they first came out, seatbelts were optional. Then airbags were luxury features. Now backup cameras are required. Now, because cars are required to have a backup camera, thus a color LCD display standard, more and more people are demanding features like Android Auto.
Forcibly making cars more complex and expensive. Why do you hate poor people?
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