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Old 09-11-2017, 08:56 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
The 501(c)(4) statues weren't changed but the Citizen United removed the campaign related spending limitations.

https://www.publicintegrity.org/2012...why-it-matters

The Supreme Court kept limits on disclosure in place, and super PACs are required to report regularly on who their donors are. The same can’t be said for “social welfare” groups and some other nonprofits, like business leagues.
These groups can function the same way as super PACs, so long as election activity is not their primary activity. But unlike the super PACs, nonprofits do not report who funds them. That’s disturbing to those who favor transparency in elections. An attempt by Congress to pass a law requiring disclosure was blocked by Republican lawmakers.
There were never any limitations on what these groups were doing. It may be disturbing to some that people can get involved without the ability of the government to attack because they hate the idea that they can not control everything but it's a good thing.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:58 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
They are applying for an exemption. Every group applying for that exemption subjects themselves to a review, ie its not automatic. Yes, that review should be impartial.
One can not pre-review what one is going to do. One can only remove the status if they run afoul of the regulations.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,845,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Arpaio was slapped down by the courts and found in contempt over this..... so what would you say?



But they did not.
I have no idea what you are trying to assert. Was Arpaio the only police official in Arizona? I remember a case of a Mexian-American truck driver who was stopped by Arizona police (not sure if local or state) the week SB1070 was being voted on. He had all his licenses to operate the truck, including a valid CA drivers license. The thing he didn't have on him was a birth certificate. He was delivered to a federal detention center where he was held for hours while is wife retrieved his birth certificate and drove it to the federal detention center. He wasn't stopped for a violation and had not broken any law.

His only crime was matching a profile the police in Arizona were looking for. What the Arizona police did is similar to what the IRS did for groups with "Tea Party" in there name, in that the subjected to them to additional scrutiny that they would have done for other people or groups. Profiling is wrong whether by the IRS or the police, but it doesn't require evil intent by the perpetrators.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:11 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
I have no idea what you are trying to assert. Was Arpaio the only police official in Arizona? I remember a case of a Mexian-American truck driver who was stopped by Arizona police (not sure if local or state) the week SB1070 was being voted on. He had all his licenses to operate the truck, including a valid CA drivers license. The thing he didn't have on him was a birth certificate. He was delivered to a federal detention center where he was held for hours while is wife retrieved his birth certificate and drove it to the federal detention center. He wasn't stopped for a violation and had not broken any law.
Just the same as many of the groups that had their applications delayed. They had done nothing illegal.

Quote:
His only crime was matching a profile the police in Arizona were looking for. What the Arizona police did is similar to what the IRS did for groups with "Tea Party" in there name, in that the subjected to them to additional scrutiny that they would have done for other people or groups. Profiling is wrong whether by the IRS or the police, but it doesn't require evil intent by the perpetrators.
Evil or not it is a violation of the civil rights of individuals and we should not allow anyone to do that or ignore it when they do.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,845,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
"We have investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong".
Are the FBI, DOJ and IRS all the same entities? The Trump administration's DOJ has access to those FBI interviews of Lerner and they decided not to pursue the case.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,288 posts, read 26,206,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
There were never any limitations on what these groups were doing. It may be disturbing to some that people can get involved without the ability of the government to attack because they hate the idea that they can not control everything but it's a good thing.
The only issue being addressed by the IRS was the tax free status, there was nothing prohibiting these groups from continuing with their political activities. I do believe that some of them were even allowed tax free status while their applications were analyzed. This was just a tax issue pure and simple, nothing else.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:15 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
Are the FBI, DOJ and IRS all the same entities? The Trump administration's DOJ has access to those FBI interviews of Lerner and they decided not to pursue the case.
You are assuming that they asked her anything of importance or that they asked her anything. As I noted, you can not expect people to investigate themselves and do a proper job of it.

Those in the establishment of both major parties do not want to lose control of the messages.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:16 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
The only issue being addressed by the IRS was the tax free status, there was nothing prohibiting these groups from continuing with their political activities. I do believe that some of them were even allowed tax free status while their applications were analyzed. This was just a tax issue pure and simple, nothing else.
People are not going to donate until you have an official designation.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,845,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Just the same as many of the groups that had their applications delayed. They had done nothing illegal.



Evil or not it is a violation of the civil rights of individuals and we should not allow anyone to do that or ignore it when they do.
But is there a case for a Criminal prosecution? Aggrieved parties can still pursue a Civil case, where frankly the standard for guilt is lowered. Not being a lawyer I'm not sure how successful this would be against a Federal agency.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:24 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
But is there a case for a Criminal prosecution? Aggrieved parties can still pursue a Civil case, where frankly the standard for guilt is lowered. Not being a lawyer I'm not sure how successful this would be against a Federal agency.
The courts so far have believed there is a case. You can also go to prison over civil rights violations. At the very least, you get fired.
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