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I don't get it. Eliminate the debt ceiling and the National Debt goes up, right? Am I missing something here? So are people saying they want 25 Trillion in Nat. Debt instead of 20 Trillion?
Educate me. All I have heard from the Right for 8 years is that we have to pay down the debt and get balanced budgets. Now.....they want a blank check with your approval?
Maybe I don't understand. I thought it was as simple as that - a higher debt.
You understand. The argument for responsible spending is nothing but a ruse to get votes.
Future generations will pay for the country's debt. Raising the debt ceiling is the younger generation's problem. If I was a Millennial I'd be outraged at the irresponsibility of government for making me pay down the road for the selfish people now, but I'm not. So go Bernie and Socialist Democrats. Free, free, free, free stuff and raise the debt ceiling to pay for it! I'm voting for Democrats from now on. Not my problem.
Future generations will pay for the country's debt. Raising the debt ceiling is the younger generation's problem. If I was a Millennial I'd be outraged at the irresponsibility of government for making me pay down the road for the selfish people now, but I'm not. So go Bernie and Socialist Democrats. Free, free, free, free stuff and raise the debt to pay for it! I'm voting for Democrats from now on.
Well, I've been listening closely and I heard MILLIONS of Republicans saying this was the single most important issue of our times...for 8 years. Remember the Tea Party?
But - the instant Obama was out of office they forgot about it and NOW want no debt ceiling? Of course, they started complaining the instant Obama took office even though GW ruined the economy and started the wars and failed to address health care or other problems (which created the massive deficits and debt).
Oh, thou Hypocrites. I think I really get it now. Gimme Gimme Gimmee - tax cuts tax cuts, disaster aid ad more....and then bill my children's children because I will be dead when they start paying taxes.
What a horrible and selfish thing...and we wonder why this country is going down the tubes.
Well, I've been listening closely and I heard MILLIONS of Republicans saying this was the single most important issue of our times...for 8 years. Remember the Tea Party?
But - the instant Obama was out of office they forgot about it and NOW want no debt ceiling? Of course, they started complaining the instant Obama took office even though GW ruined the economy and started the wars and failed to address health care or other problems (which created the massive deficits and debt).
Oh, thou Hypocrites. I think I really get it now. Gimme Gimme Gimmee - tax cuts tax cuts, disaster aid ad more....and then bill my children's children because I will be dead when they start paying taxes.
What a horrible and selfish thing...and we wonder why this country is going down the tubes.
I'm done voting for fiscal responsibility for 30 years. It is the young people's turn to decide what they want from politicians and for the country. 2016 was my last Republican hoorah. I'm voting Democrat from now on. I've already switched my voter registration.
Last edited by texan2yankee; 09-09-2017 at 06:39 PM..
I don't get it. Eliminate the debt ceiling and the National Debt goes up, right? Am I missing something here? So are people saying they want 25 Trillion in Nat. Debt instead of 20 Trillion?
Educate me. All I have heard from the Right for 8 years is that we have to pay down the debt and get balanced budgets. Now.....they want a blank check with your approval?
Maybe I don't understand. I thought it was as simple as that - a higher debt.
You don't understand.
Congress passes a bill that entails spending money. The president signs it.
It's now the law of the land, right? Regardless of any arguments against it, the Congress has said that we will spend the money. Regardless of its effect on the deficit - the gap between current income and outgo - and the debt, which is our long-term bond obligations - we're committed. We've decided that we really ought to do this.
OK, some agency or other or several is charged with enforcing the new law / implementing the new program. The agencies develop a plan to implement the law, determine how much it's going to cost, and those expenses get rolled into the relevant budgets. Those budgets are then approved by Congress, so the money is appropriated. We're doing this - we've said it twice now.
Those approved budgets and the appropriated amounts then go to Treasury, which has to come up with the actual cash. If new cash needs to be found, then Treasury will issue bonds which are loans from the buyer to the gov. Those loans of course obligate the gov to pay back both the principal and the interest. So now Treasury is in the bond market, peddling these bonds. They are in the bond market all the time in order to get the operating cash to keep the gov going. But the debt ceiling says they can sell bonds only up to the amount of the current debt ceiling. So we've already said, and reiterated, that yes, we are committing ourselves to spending this money, we've hired the employees, we've written and signed the contracts, we've started disbursing the grants - BUT wait a minute, we're not gonna let the Treasury sell enough bonds to get the cash to cover the items we've already committed ourselves to.
Yes, it's nuts. Yes, it's why the debt ceiling is always raised whenever it comes up. Because absolutely NO ONE, regardless of party, wants to put the gov in the position of your average check kiter - gee, I'm sorry, I thought I had enough money in my account to cover that.
This is a simplification, probably even a gross simplification, but that's basically what the famous debt ceiling is.
Yes, it's nuts. Yes, it's why the debt ceiling is always raised whenever it comes up. Because absolutely NO ONE, regardless of party, wants to put the gov in the position of your average check kiter - gee, I'm sorry, I thought I had enough money in my account to cover that.
This is a simplification, probably even a gross simplification, but that's basically what the famous debt ceiling is.
I'm quite well versed on financial matters having run a number of medium-sized firms which I started. I think your simplification is too simple.
What you are really saying - taken to a family or individual is - "Hey, I bought BMW and a Beach House I could not afford, but now I want the Bank to up my credit limit and my CC to also up the limit so I can make the monthly payments which will allow me to keep the stuff - AND for my creditors to be paid.
After all, I wouldn't want to screw my creditors, right?
Future generations will pay for the country's debt. Raising the debt ceiling is the younger generation's problem. If I was a Millennial I'd be outraged at the irresponsibility of government for making me pay down the road for the selfish people now, but I'm not. So go Bernie and Socialist Democrats. Free, free, free, free stuff and raise the debt ceiling to pay for it! I'm voting for Democrats from now on. Not my problem.
If by pay you mean suffer, sure. If by pay you mean in the narrow sense pay it off with non-inflated dollars, not going to happen. We've waited too long and realistically the debt is too big to ever get paid off. Either will be inflated away or defaulted on. I support default; this is a fringe position now but only because people would rather stick their heads in the sand on the issue.
I'm quite well versed on financial matters having run a number of medium-sized firms which I started. I think your simplification is too simple.
What you are really saying - taken to a family or individual is - "Hey, I bought BMW and a Beach House I could not afford, but now I want the Bank to up my credit limit and my CC to also up the limit so I can make the monthly payments which will allow me to keep the stuff - AND for my creditors to be paid.
After all, I wouldn't want to screw my creditors, right?
Not exactly. Individuals are not nations, with a nation's obligations to its citizens. If you are stupid with your credit cards, it doesn't affect your neighbors' lives.
And no, if you're a nation, you really don't want to screw those creditors. Because if you do, your bond buyers will demand more interest.
The point is that the debt ceiling is bogus. It doesn't do anything except provide another arena for pointless rehashing.
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