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Old 09-11-2017, 07:23 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,806,587 times
Reputation: 9283

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Hospitals make great money on Medicare outpatient testing. Roughly 3X what I would collect for the same service in my medical office.

With my private primary care practice I can do well enough with Medicare alone as it stands.
they collect 3X but only have 1-2% profit... I would be willing to bet their laboratory expenses is MORE than 3X yours... that's not great money... your primary care practice has the patient volume to manage well with Medicare alone, most practices are not in your shoes...
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:26 PM
 
18,794 posts, read 8,418,426 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
you don't think increasing the amount of people covered to 325 million (6 times the amount of people) is not going to increase the cost by ATLEAST 5 times

No, not X5. A huge number of kids, younger and healthier folks will need next to no HC in any year.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:35 PM
 
18,794 posts, read 8,418,426 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
they collect 3X but only have 1-2% profit... I would be willing to bet their laboratory expenses is MORE than 3X yours... that's not great money... your primary care practice has the patient volume to manage well with Medicare alone, most practices are not in your shoes...
My hospital is at 3%, from about $1B in revenues, so still big earnings.

I don't know about lab. But with x-ray, CT, MRI and cardio scanning they get 3X and our basic setup of those services was the same.

I am nearing retirement and have been cutting back. So I have fewer Medicare patients than many of my peers. But working a normal 5 day week I would earn about $200K. Today working only 3 days a week means that I'm actually practicing at a loss.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:37 PM
 
4,344 posts, read 5,784,490 times
Reputation: 2465
Trust me. You do NOT want the government in your health care.
As an example, look at Tricare. You have Tricare Standard, Tricare Prime and Tricare for Life.
Tricare Standard has copays and a max out of pocket. Good luck finding someone who takes Tricare Standard.
Tricare Prime is like an HMO...good luck getting an appointment with your provider or finding a provider off the base that takes it also.
Tricare for Life if you are Medicare eligible, you must have Medicare Part A, purchase Part B just for TFL to kick in. Once again, good luck finding a provider that accepts Medicare and TFL.

The crap that we have to fight for is ridiculous. I honestly would not wish the crap they have done to my husband, kids and myself on no one. My husband hurt himself recently and should of had stitches. They didn't do jack crap. Now they can't even figure out if he ripped his meniscus or not.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Chesapeake Bay
6,046 posts, read 4,803,925 times
Reputation: 3544
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
Medicare (partial care for the aged)(partial...medicare is a 75/25 insurance and has lots of denials/not covered..ie..nursing homes are 0% covered) only covers about 45 million

you don't think increasing the amount of people covered to 325 million (6 times the amount of people) is not going to increase the cost by ATLEAST 5 times


this is the GOVERNMENT cost and future estimates ON ONLY THE CURRENT 45 million people covered
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion
prediction for 2020....963 billion
prediction for 2026....1.383 Trillion

if the estimate for FY2026 is 1.3 trillion to PARTIALLY cover 45 million...what do YOU THINK the cost would be for 325 million people?????
The costs would not be at least 5 times as much.

Today, the oldest (age 65+) and those on disability (after 2 years) are on Medicare. Using their costs as an estimate for everyone enrolled is totally wrong. And mathematically incorrect. It is misleading at best.

That argument fails. Obviously.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
No, not X5. A huge number of kids, younger and healthier folks will need next to no HC in any year.
sorry but 325 million is 7 times what 45 million is...so saying the cost will be 5 times is certainly a conservative number

especially when you look at what mediciad costs which mostly covers children

let's look at the increases medicare has cost:
in 2000 medicare was 216 billion
in 2008 medicare was 456 billion
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion


Medicaid:
2000.....117 billion
2008.....201 billion
2016.....368 billion

what is even more interesting is what the predicted outlays will be in the future
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion
prediction for 2020....963 billion
prediction for 2026....1.383 Trillion

actual Medicaid 2016.....368 billion
prediction for 2020....450 billion
prediction for 2026....616 Billion



again

if the estimate for FY2026 is 1.3 trillion to PARTIALLY cover 45 million with medicare AND if the estimate for FY2026 is 2/3 trillion to PARTIALLY cover 45 million with medicaid ...what do YOU THINK the cost would be for 325 million people?????




...what do YOU THINK the cost would be for 325 million people?????
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Chesapeake Bay
6,046 posts, read 4,803,925 times
Reputation: 3544
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
sorry but 325 million is 7 times what 45 million is...so saying the cost will be 5 times is certainly a conservative number

especially when you look at what mediciad costs which mostly covers children

let's look at the increases medicare has cost:
in 2000 medicare was 216 billion
in 2008 medicare was 456 billion
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion


Medicaid:
2000.....117 billion
2008.....201 billion
2016.....368 billion

what is even more interesting is what the predicted outlays will be in the future
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion
prediction for 2020....963 billion
prediction for 2026....1.383 Trillion

actual Medicaid 2016.....368 billion
prediction for 2020....450 billion
prediction for 2026....616 Billion



again

if the estimate for FY2026 is 1.3 trillion to PARTIALLY cover 45 million with medicare AND if the estimate for FY2026 is 2/3 trillion to PARTIALLY cover 45 million with medicaid ...what do YOU THINK the cost would be for 325 million people?????




...what do YOU THINK the cost would be for 325 million people?????
Nope, it isn't conservative at at all.

In fact, its totally wrong and incorrect.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weichert View Post
Nope, it isn't conservative at at all.

In fact, its totally wrong and incorrect.
so prove me wrong....if I am wrong, then I am wrong...but please prove my math wrong


again.......what do YOU THINK the cost would be to cover fully 325 million people?????


and let's not forget:

Obesity rates among ALL OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 37.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.----costing 270 billion per year and will grow to 344 billion within the next 2 years
New Data Shows Obesity Costs Will Grow to $344 Billion by 2018 | Partnership to Fight Chronic Disease



------------------------------------


number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.9 million for a total of 25 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer....the cost is over 250 billion. and expected to be 290 billion by 2020




--------------------------------------



number of americans with heart disease: 29.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 17 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.9 million)).....900,000 people in the USA die from heart disease annually....the cost 590 billion annually
will cardiac care be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered'' or "sorry you smoke, or eat too much" not covered??


-------------------------------------


number of americans in full pledged nursing homes: 2.5 million...... the average cost Adult Day Health Care,.20,000 per year......assisted living facility 45,000 per year....nursing home (semi-private room),.85,000 per year.......nursing home (private room),.96,000
number of americans in all levels of nursing homes and assisted living....12 million (Annually 11,995,100 people receive support from the 5 main long-term care service; home health agencies (5,742,500), nursing homes (2,383,700), hospices (1,544,500), residential care communities (913,300) and adult day service centers (373,200)...............total cost of long term care 590 billion annually...and going up every year https://www.genworth.com/corporate/a...t-of-care.html

will nursing homes be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered''??


---------------------------------------


More than 26 million Americans have significant vision loss.((a total of 85 million Americans have potentially blinding eye diseases. )) (((hmmm more than 26 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))......The cost of vision loss, including direct costs and lost productivity, is estimated to exceed $141 billion
Cost of Vision Problems — Discussion


--------------------------------------------------



number of americans with diabetes: 31 million....total cost 325 billion per year


------------------------------------------------



number of americans with asthma: 27 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.......annual costs 76 billion per year and increasing






while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers that's over 160 million with MAJOR health problems....costly problems...........we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world.........we have the 3rd highest population in the world (next to china and India) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in Europe..........I just showed you at least 160 million people with cancer, heart, blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than France and great Britain COMBINED for their total populations.


remember if we do go medicare for all..that replaces the cost of Medicaid and the VA



will nursing homes be covered under a "medciare for all" (its not covered under medicare at all..and only covered under Medicaid if you have ZERO money anywhere)...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered''??




if I am wrong, then I am wrong...but please prove my math wrong....just saying I am wrong, is not proving I am wrong
again.......what do YOU THINK the cost would be to cover fully 325 million people?????
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:15 PM
 
1,251 posts, read 1,074,327 times
Reputation: 2315
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybug07 View Post
Trust me. You do NOT want the government in your health care.
As an example, look at Tricare. You have Tricare Standard, Tricare Prime and Tricare for Life.
Tricare Standard has copays and a max out of pocket. Good luck finding someone who takes Tricare Standard.
Tricare Prime is like an HMO...good luck getting an appointment with your provider or finding a provider off the base that takes it also.
Tricare for Life if you are Medicare eligible, you must have Medicare Part A, purchase Part B just for TFL to kick in. Once again, good luck finding a provider that accepts Medicare and TFL.

The crap that we have to fight for is ridiculous. I honestly would not wish the crap they have done to my husband, kids and myself on no one. My husband hurt himself recently and should of had stitches. They didn't do jack crap. Now they can't even figure out if he ripped his meniscus or not.
Agree, although most on here won't understand Tricare. We have Prime and the "cost" to us the fact that we get a few doctors out of thousands to choose from as our primary. Takes a month for an appointment.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Chesapeake Bay
6,046 posts, read 4,803,925 times
Reputation: 3544
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
so prove me wrong....if I am wrong, then I am wrong...but please prove my math wrong


again.......what do YOU THINK the cost would be to cover fully 325 million people?????


and let's not forget:

Obesity rates among ALL OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 37.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.----costing 270 billion per year and will grow to 344 billion within the next 2 years
New Data Shows Obesity Costs Will Grow to $344 Billion by 2018 | Partnership to Fight Chronic Disease



------------------------------------


number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.9 million for a total of 25 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer....the cost is over 250 billion. and expected to be 290 billion by 2020




--------------------------------------



number of americans with heart disease: 29.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 17 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.9 million)).....900,000 people in the USA die from heart disease annually....the cost 590 billion annually
will cardiac care be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered'' or "sorry you smoke, or eat too much" not covered??


-------------------------------------


number of americans in full pledged nursing homes: 2.5 million...... the average cost Adult Day Health Care,.20,000 per year......assisted living facility 45,000 per year....nursing home (semi-private room),.85,000 per year.......nursing home (private room),.96,000
number of americans in all levels of nursing homes and assisted living....12 million (Annually 11,995,100 people receive support from the 5 main long-term care service; home health agencies (5,742,500), nursing homes (2,383,700), hospices (1,544,500), residential care communities (913,300) and adult day service centers (373,200)...............total cost of long term care 590 billion annually...and going up every year https://www.genworth.com/corporate/a...t-of-care.html

will nursing homes be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered''??


---------------------------------------


More than 26 million Americans have significant vision loss.((a total of 85 million Americans have potentially blinding eye diseases. )) (((hmmm more than 26 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))......The cost of vision loss, including direct costs and lost productivity, is estimated to exceed $141 billion
Cost of Vision Problems — Discussion


--------------------------------------------------



number of americans with diabetes: 31 million....total cost 325 billion per year


------------------------------------------------



number of americans with asthma: 27 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.......annual costs 76 billion per year and increasing






while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers that's over 160 million with MAJOR health problems....costly problems...........we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world.........we have the 3rd highest population in the world (next to china and India) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in Europe..........I just showed you at least 160 million people with cancer, heart, blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than France and great Britain COMBINED for their total populations.




if I am wrong, then I am wrong...but please prove my math wrong....just saying I am wrong, is not proving I am wrong
again.......what do YOU THINK the cost would be to cover fully 325 million people?????
Its simple. Take a look at the average ACA silver plan total premium for someone age 30-35. And then look at the same plan for someone age 60-64. You can find those numbers with google. The younger person will pay less. Much less. And thats obvious because younger age groups have fewer medical issues than the much older (30 years older) age group.

You could do the arithmetic yourself. Get number of people in each age group. Then multiply the premium cost for each age group times the previously found number of people. Obviously, that accumulation will be much less than assuming the cost will be the same for every age group (and the max possible cost at that).
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