More and more Dems signing on for Medicare for all (insurance, cost)

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by OnOurWayHome

Dems fall in line on single-payer, as Sanders prepares to launch Medicare-for-all 'campaign' | Fox News

Hearing Merkley and Booker are also in. Maybe the time has finally come. Lots to work out, but let's see if they can get the support.

the taxpayer cant afford the albatross of medicare for all


but they (the government) cant lower much..the best the government could do is lower some prescription medicines

you will be real sorry if you think singlepayer can negotiate anything

we've seen what a 'government option' is like...just look at the dept of health HORROR CLINICS

oh and its NEVER free.... as a taxpayer you cant afford singlepayer


national health care..or singlepayer..or universal health care...cant be done without killing the taxpayer

national health care or mediciad for all.. or whatever you want to call it will cost 3 trillion to 6 trillion YEARLY and ALWAYS going up

there are only 140 million tax FILERS of which 47% dont pay anything or nearly nothing...so there are only about 70-75 million tax PAYERS

are you a taxpayer....then you wont be able to afford medicare for all (which is NOT a 100% singlepayer( it is a 80/20 insurance)


we've seen what a 'government option' is like...just look at the dept of health HORROR CLINICS

oh and its NEVER free.... as a taxpayer you cant afford singlepayer

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singlepayer wont save you a dime.... but if you are a taxpayer you sure will be screwed

if the payer (government in this case) says the payment is xxx, yet the provider NEEDS yyy to cover all his over head, then its not just about a payment...we have many (some say as many as 1500) cost of living areas within the usa.... that's one of the key things to remember is that one size does not fit all


with UHC you cant GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (look at the health dept horror clinics)

you (the taxpayer) cant afford singlepayer aka uhc....unless we change the tax system

singlepayer ( total government funding(taxpayer) and total government control) is NOT what we need...not if we EXPECT the QUALITY of care

when you look at the COSTS of ACTUAL care (not insurance) and the OVERHEAD costs associated with the care..the cost would be astronomical to cover 325 million people

and lets look at the some other numbers:

the ACTUAL cost just to help americans with Alzheimer's is over 400 billion every year

and let's not forget:

Obesity rates among ALL OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 37.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.----costing 270 billion per year and will grow to 344 billion within the next 2 years
New Data Shows Obesity Costs Will Grow to $344 Billion by 2018 | Partnership to Fight Chronic Disease



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number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.9 million for a total of 25 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer....the cost is over 250 billion. and expected to be 290 billion by 2020




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number of americans with heart disease: 29.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 17 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.9 million)).....900,000 people in the USA die from heart disease annually....the cost 590 billion annually
will cardiac care be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered'' or "sorry you smoke, or eat too much" not covered??


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number of americans in full pledged nursing homes: 2.5 million...... the average cost Adult Day Health Care,.20,000 per year......assisted living facility 45,000 per year....nursing home (semi-private room),.85,000 per year.......nursing home (private room),.96,000
number of americans in all levels of nursing homes and assisted living....12 million (Annually 11,995,100 people receive support from the 5 main long-term care service; home health agencies (5,742,500), nursing homes (2,383,700), hospices (1,544,500), residential care communities (913,300) and adult day service centers (373,200)...............total cost of long term care 590 billion annually...and going up every year https://www.genworth.com/corporate/a...t-of-care.html

will nursing homes be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered''??


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More than 26 million Americans have significant vision loss.((a total of 85 million Americans have potentially blinding eye diseases. )) (((hmmm more than 26 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))......The cost of vision loss, including direct costs and lost productivity, is estimated to exceed $141 billion
Cost of Vision Problems — Discussion


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number of americans with diabetes: 31 million....total cost 325 billion per year


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number of americans with asthma: 27 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.......annual costs 76 billion per yearand increasing






while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers that's over 160 million with MAJOR health problems....costly problems...........we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world.........we have the 3rd highest population in the world (next to china and India) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in Europe..........I just showed you at least 160 million people with cancer, heart, blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than France and great Britain COMBINED for their total populations.


so what are we saying we should FORCE doctors and nurse to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts

when you pay that doctor $100 ,, its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS

how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark

how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????

how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????

how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even american

how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???

how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????

how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????

things are expensive

for example the average hospital uses a lot of electricity...about 450,000 a month...that's over 5 million dollars in electric costs yearly.....you are not going to cut that piece of overhead

when you go to the local doctor and pay him/her 100..its not 100 going into their pocket

they have lots of overhead costs:
rent/lease/mortgage
property taxes
electric costs
equipment costs(and many pieces of equipment are not even made here)
cleaning costs
supply costs
personnel costs
etc


singlepayer will not control these costs


don't you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)

want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-20000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-78,000 in the usa


so what is it that singlepayer supporters 'think' or 'believe' we will be able to negotiate ??? medicines maybe....salaries not likely...other supply costs not likely.....property taxes and overhead...not a chance


singlepayer would cost between 3.5 TRILLION and 6 trillion ANNUALLY.....and will INCREASE everyyear...the taxpayers cant afford that

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by NHartphotog

Medicare currently works because all workers pay into it, it only covers the group who are mostly healthy & likely going to die of old age, and it uses enrollees to subsidize the costs (since the poorest are covered under Medicaid).

Medicare works because of Federal deficit spending with the resultant approximate 30% discount. And it covers all seniors, including the sick and disabled. Where do you get the notion it only covers healthy seniors?

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by jacqueg

Of course. It's what most of us really wanted in the first place.

Originally Posted by G1..

It would be the best choice for all!

no its the worst choice....

we are already on the hook for over 1 trillion annually for medicare/Medicaid

so expanding Medicaid and nedicare (the trillion dollar gorilla in the room), putting it on the taxpayers, WHILE MANDATING they cover themselves by paying for their own private insurance is supposed to be a good thing for the middleclass???

medicare and Medicaid is over a trillion just at the federal level currently
let's look at the increases medicare has cost:
in 2000 medicare was 216 billion
in 2008 medicare was 456 billion
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion

Medicaid:
2000.....117 billion
2008.....201 billion
2016.....368 billion

what is even more interesting is what the predicted outlays will be in the future
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion
prediction for 2020....963 billion
prediction for 2026....1.383 Trillion

actual Medicaid 2016.....368 billion
prediction for 2020....450 billion
prediction for 2026....616 Billion

so the prediction is medicare and Medicaid is expected to be over 2 trillion dollars is less than 9 years
that's just the GOVERNMENT costs of Medicare and Medicaid... and medicare/Medicaid covers less than 1/4 of our population.. on top of that you have the VA..and then what the PEOPLE are already paying for private insurance....do you really think multiplying the cost of medicare by 5 to cover 325 million people is so smart do you think the taxpayers can afford an additional 5-7 trillion dollars annuary....where do you think the MAGIC MONEY is going to appear from

[Delahanty]

Originally Posted by OnOurWayHome

Yes I think most Americans want this. Politicians are another story, though ;-)

Lol really?

Seniors on Medicare don't want it, and neither do their adult children who care about them.

"Medicare for All" is really "Obamacare for Seniors, Too." Anyone who thinks that this won't erode benefits and increase costs of beneficiaries for whom it was created, has a strudel in his noodle. This scheme will be how the Dems pick seniors' pockets and get them into the ACA marketplace.

Believe it.

[Rakin]

We have the wonderful Obamacare that's working so well.

Why would Dems want to leave such a fine program?

[evilnewbie]

No hospital, private practice, or any health facility will accept 100% Medicare rates... which means Medicare cost will go up at least 30% for CURRENT recipents and add on the explosive cost of non-Medicare recipients would likely quadruple this costs... i like how Democrat politicians lie to people that it is even an option...

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

so the prediction is medicare and Medicaid is expected to be over 2 trillion dollars is less than 9 years
that's just the GOVERNMENT costs of Medicare and Medicaid... and medicare/Medicaid covers less than 1/4 of our population.. on top of that you have the VA..and then what the PEOPLE are already paying for private insurance....do you really think multiplying the cost of medicare by 5 to cover 325 million people is so smart do you think the taxpayers can afford an additional 5-7 trillion dollars annuary....where do you think the MAGIC MONEY is going to appear from

I don't support single payer.

Medicare for all will not cost 5X more than current Medicare, because the expansion would include so many young and healthy people. Vs Medicare of today covering the disabled and the aged.

That being said, MONEY is not our limit. Our limits will continue to be in our ability to provide the necessary HC services in the future. Money can be created with keystrokes. Training docs and nurses, expanding and creating HC related facilities takes planning and time.

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by evilnewbie

No hospital, private practice, or any health facility will accept 100% Medicare rates... which means Medicare cost will go up at least 30% for CURRENT recipents and add on the explosive cost of non-Medicare recipients would likely quadruple this costs... i like how Democrat politicians lie to people that it is even an option...

Hospitals make great money on Medicare outpatient testing. Roughly 3X what I would collect for the same service in my medical office.

With my private primary care practice I can do well enough with Medicare alone as it stands.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by Hoonose

I don't support single payer.

Medicare for all will not cost 5X more than current Medicare, because the expansion would include so many young and healthy people. Vs Medicare of today covering the disabled and the aged.

That being said, MONEY is not our limit. Our limits will continue to be in our ability to provide the necessary HC services in the future. Money can be created with keystrokes. Training docs and nurses, expanding and creating HC related facilities takes planning and time.

Medicare (partial care for the aged)(partial...medicare is a 75/25 insurance and has lots of denials/not covered..ie..nursing homes are 0% covered) only covers about 45 million

you don't think increasing the amount of people covered to 325 million (6 times the amount of people) is not going to increase the cost by ATLEAST 5 times


this is the GOVERNMENT cost and future estimates ON ONLY THE CURRENT 45 million people covered
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion
prediction for 2020....963 billion
prediction for 2026....1.383 Trillion

if the estimate for FY2026 is 1.3 trillion to PARTIALLY cover 45 million...what do YOU THINK the cost would be for 325 million people?????

[blanker]

It's easy to appear brave and propose something like this when your side isn't in power and it has no chance.The Republicans passed ACA repeal 40 times or something when it had zero chance. But when it did have a chance, reality set in and they choked. So, this isn't happening.