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If you think that US actions against Russia are comparable to those of Russia against the United States, then you are delusional. Russia acted to undermine elections in at least a half dozen western countries, including the United States (while simultaneously seeking to undermine the rule of law). Russia invaded Ukraine and fomented rebellion there. Russia invaded Georgia. I don't recall the United States invading Russia anytime recently--feel free to remind me of that event.
China is a more powerful country than Russia. But it is also a more responsible country than Russia. Identify the last country invaded by China.
I think you been drinking the kool-aid from the Democrat party with the Russia hysteria.
We don't do regime changes? We don't pay rebels to take over governments that "WE" don't approve?
[quote=TheCityTheBridge;49600805]So how did the intervention work in "stop[ping] communism [sic] aggression"? Why intervene on behalf of a "partner" unworthy of the title? Why intervene to achieve nothing when doing nothing would have achieved the same without paying the immense costs?
Again, how did that containment work out? Small minds could not see beyond the short term, and as a result they made disastrous decisions.
South Vietnam was not an imperfect ally. It was an abysmal one. There was no strategic value in South Vietnam. There was no shared ideology with South Vietnam. It was, quite literally, just the regime that happened to be there.
So why didn't the Soviet Union collapse when tensions were higher in the 1960s?
Why didn't the Soviet Union collapse with the bigger boost in US military spending in the 1950s? Or the bigger spike in the 1960s?
Why do you think SDI nullified the Soviet arsenal? That is pure fantasy. We have much more sophisticated missile defense systems today, yet they remain unproven against even a single warhead, much less the vast arsenal that our nuclear counterparts are capable of firing.
It was the Saudis (and their OPEC partners) who drove oil prices up in the 70s and then down in the 80s.
Why don't you consider the internal political conflicts between people of different nations under the Soviet Union?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999
That wasn't my point. I said North Vietnam today isn't a parking lot because we were cautious to not escalate the war with China and the Soviets. We only did selective bombings. If China and Soviets weren't involved, North Vietnam doesn't last 2 years against our firepower.
China and the USSR certainly offered arms and training, but North Vietnamese regulars and Vietnamese irregulars did the fighting. We bombed extensively. We used chemical agents. We fought in Cambodia. And we still lost.
If you think that US actions against Russia are comparable to those of Russia against the United States, then you are delusional. Russia acted to undermine elections in at least a half dozen western countries, including the United States (while simultaneously seeking to undermine the rule of law). Russia invaded Ukraine and fomented rebellion there. Russia invaded Georgia. I don't recall the United States invading Russia anytime recently--feel free to remind me of that event.
China is a more powerful country than Russia. But it is also a more responsible country than Russia. Identify the last country invaded by China.
A lot of the war policy used in Vietnam could be used for a book entitled "how to lose a war"
Did you note how McNamara and Johnson limited the air war so much it was ineffective?
We never bombed any signifigant targets in the North until 1972. We should have cut off the line of supply across North Vietnam From china,and Russia. Westmoreland wanted to go into Cambodia and cut off the Ho Chi Minh Trail........they would not let him........
So how did the intervention work in "stop[ping] communism [sic] aggression"? Why intervene on behalf of a "partner" unworthy of the title? Why intervene to achieve nothing when doing nothing would have achieved the same without paying the immense costs?
Again, how did that containment work out? Small minds could not see beyond the short term, and as a result they made disastrous decisions.
South Vietnam was not an imperfect ally. It was an abysmal one. There was no strategic value in South Vietnam. There was no shared ideology with South Vietnam. It was, quite literally, just the regime that happened to be there.
So why didn't the Soviet Union collapse when tensions were higher in the 1960s?
Why didn't the Soviet Union collapse with the bigger boost in US military spending in the 1950s? Or the bigger spike in the 1960s?
Why do you think SDI nullified the Soviet arsenal? That is pure fantasy. We have much more sophisticated missile defense systems today, yet they remain unproven against even a single warhead, much less the vast arsenal that our nuclear counterparts are capable of firing.
It was the Saudis (and their OPEC partners) who drove oil prices up in the 70s and then down in the 80s.
Why don't you consider the internal political conflicts between people of different nations under the Soviet Union?
A lot of the war policy used in Vietnam could be used for a book entitled "how to lose a war" Did you note how McNamara and Johnson limited the air war so much it was ineffective?
We never bombed any signifigant targets in the North until 1972. We should have cut off the line of supply across North Vietnam From china,and Russia. Westmoreland wanted to go into Cambodia and cut off the Ho Chi Minh Trail........they would not let him........
Considering Vietnam and our actions in other South American countries I believe our cure is far worse than the disease. If communism was the threat you claim Vietnam would not be our ally. Communism undermining of governments in other countries has been used as an excuse far too often.
Nice Retro-history...............Vietnam became an "ally" after 40 some years.........and that is only because we are backing them because they are at odds with China.
I did not. I was drafted in 1966, when the majority of young men from my background (small town, working-class, blue collar) felt that we had an obligation to serve our country. I took my basic and advanced training in an armor regiment of the Fifth Infantry Division in Colorado. I trained as a 4.2 mortar crewman. With one year left in my two-year hitch, I got orders to report to Vietnam unattached to any unit. I was thrown into the replacement pool at Bien Hoa, and assigned to the First Infantry Division, or "bloody red one", as the clerk told me. Made me feel real good. Not. I reported to Di An, the First Division base camp, and learned that my MOS was now 11B, infantry rifleman. I was issued the first M-16 I had ever seen, and choppered into the base camp of the 1/28th infantry regiment at Phu Loi. A week later I was sitting on the red dirt of the runway at Quan Loi, waiting for the flight of slicks that would take us to the Cambodian border. Two days later I was in a series of firefights and VC ground attacks on our perimeter next to a special forces camp. A week later it was Christmas, and we ate our holiday meal in the rain, with the canned turkey, instant mashed potatoes, and jello, running together into a cold tan soup with red streaks. That marked the first month of the second year of my army career. The next nine months passed like those of many of my fellow grunts in line platoons, many of whom have posted movingly and truly in this thread. I was honorably discharged from active duty as Sgt.E-5, having been a rifle squad leader from April through September, 1968.
I try not to become too involved with the whole Vietnam argument, because I become upset with the uninformed views of many people, until I remind myself that it is not their fault that they weren't there; I certainly can't resent them for being more fortunate than I was. That way lies a kind of madness. One point I would like to reiterate, having read several posts stating the fact, is that I can't remember a single conversation among the troops I served with that dealt with patriotism, politics, or any similar dispute. We were too busy trying to stay alive, and -- more to the point -- trying to keep our buddies alive. The only exceptions to this general observation were the two assassinations of public figures that occurred during that terrible year: Martin Luther King in March, 1968, and Robert Kennedy in June. By coincidence, my unit had just returned from ambush patrols on the two mornings, three months apart, that we got the news. We were tired from the sleepless night we had just spent, our jungle fatigues were soaked to the skin (we wore no underwear, of course -- none of the infantry did, that I knew of), and we got the bad news from " the world." We avoided each others' eyes. We were quiet all day. We wondered what kind of country we were going home to -- if we made it. Many of us are still wondering.
The way I see it, America is going to have to wait until the generation of Vietnam veterans and war protestors dies out, for this evil era to be laid to rest. Ken Burns has done nothing but open old wounds for us veterans, particularly considering his attempt to show Vietnam vets as pathetic, sorrowful losers and/or sociopaths, and to establish a moral equivalence of the veterans and the protestors. I can understand his motivation, but I do not share it. And I cannot forgive him for doing this.
I got sick of hearing a lot of the other students of whom 50% were there simply to avoid the draft. A lot of them were afraid. I also was not ready for college. Mostly did not know what to make a career in. I got a job for a couple months and then joined the army.My draft lottery number was 356. this was in 1970
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