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Some of the knee-jerk pro-Israeli folks need to dig a little...no, a whole lot deeper into the story. There are indeed two quite legitimate sides to it, but what you see in the western press is hopelessly biased, all but excluding a Palestinian point of view entirely. From the fundie-right in this country comes in addition a fanatically pro-Israel rhetoric that demonizes any Palestinian person and praises any action, regardless of its wanton brutality, taken by Israel. Israelis themselves are far less pro-Israel than many of you are. You need to get a grip...
Interestingly enough, I have a couple of Israeli friends who are very critical of the actions of their government. I guess they are anti-Israeli's just as those to Bush policies are "anti-Americans"...
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The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. ~Henry David Thoreau
[quote=geeoro;3157777 Maybe every country should give land they have taken back to who originaly owned them. America should be given back to the native Americans
or California should be given back to Mexico and so on and so on.[/quote]
(Native Americans: yes, because they stole it, but native americans simply want the US to abide by it's treaties, at this point)
(Mexico: no, because it was fought for, and won)
When I grew up, I understood the Palestinians were the terrorists, and Isrealis were the good guys, thanks to our media.
Then I learned how England gave Jews the land of Israel because that was their country 2000 years, which was a nice gesture, EXCEPT IT WAS ALREADY SOMEBODY ELSE'S COUNTRY BY THEN!
I felt like I'd been lied to, in the same way I was taught that the Native Americans were savages to be conquered.
I now know to question any information I get, instead of accepting it as factual truth.
And, I'm so fed up with the mantra: "Israel has a right to defend itself". Well, so does Palestine!
and if the Israeli's return the land they took and rebuild the houses they destroyed, maybe the Palestinians would stop, too. I am quite sure if someone would come to destroy your home you would just happily hand it over....
It takes two.
Wasn't it Israel's land well before the Muslim conquests took it from the Jews?
Then I learned how England gave Jews the land of Israel because that was their country 2000 years, which was a nice gesture, EXCEPT IT WAS ALREADY SOMEBODY ELSE'S COUNTRY BY THEN!
And, I'm so fed up with the mantra: "Israel has a right to defend itself". Well, so does Palestine!
Yes, but the Jews were given portions where they were already the majority. Many Jewish refugees (like those fleeing Arab anti-Semitism and the Holocaust) settled in Palestine and wealthier Jews from the U.S., Canada, and the UK bought land there. So they already developed and own much of the land in the area they were given. However, the Palestinians (back by the Arab world) wanted all of it, they declared war, and they lost all of it.
As far as Palestine defending itself, I didn't know pizza parlors and schools were strategic targets. They are so righteous and brave defending themselves against unarmed civilians. Remember a few years back when some Palestinian gunmen shot a toddler in the face, yeah, that toddler was oppressing the Palestinians.
If the Palestinians were Christians, you'd probably despise them.
Actually, some of my best friends are Christians. Try a little harder, okay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni
I have never understood why violent, anti-democratic, racist, anti-Semitic, religious fundamentalists are so supported by the Left.
I see you've done all your proper homework on the Palestinian people. Haven't let any insipid propaganda taint your view at all. Meanwhile, I haven't supported anyone. I've pointed out that a lot of people recently posting in this thread have done so from a quite uninformed point of view. The facts are that since September 2000, for every Israeli who has been killed by a Palestinian, about 4 Palestinians have been killed by Israelis. For every Israeli child who has been killed by a Palestinian, about 9 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis. Those are the background kill-ratios in this conflict. 4-to-1 overall, and 9-to-1 for children. If you weren't aware of this, then you as well have been posting from an uninformed point of view.
The data by the way are from B'Tselem, an Israeli charitable organization that all sides concede to have the best available data on these matters. You can google them and maybe take the time to learn a thing or two while you are there...
America has never adhered to any of its promises or treaties with the native American.
Mexico was fought for and won by America. Do you mean like the Palastinian land that Israel fought for and won when the Arab nations attacked Israel?
The ALLIES allowed the State of Israel to be formed after it had Won WW2 and for the fact that the Arabs had also collaberated with the nazis and therefore lost too.
Jerusalem is part of Israel and was won in a war by Israel.
Defend is completely different to Attack. The palastinians attack Israel because they do not recognise Israels right to exist. BIG difference from Israel defending itself from constant ATTACKS from Hammas.
Interestingly enough, I have a couple of Israeli friends who are very critical of the actions of their government. I guess they are anti-Israeli's just as those to Bush policies are "anti-Americans"...
Yes, it's all the you are either with us or with the terrorists mentality spilt all over the kitchen floor. Thank God there are a few rational people left in various spots around the world bravely trying to mop this mess up...
Actually, some of my best friends are Christians. Try a little harder, okay?
I see you've done all your proper homework on the Palestinian people. Haven't let any insipid propaganda taint your view at all. Meanwhile, I haven't supported anyone. I've pointed out that a lot of people recently posting in this thread have done so from a quite uninformed point of view. The facts are that since September 2000, for every Israeli who has been killed by a Palestinian, about 4 Palestinians have been killed by Israelis. For every Israeli child who has been killed by a Palestinian, about 9 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis. Those are the background kill-ratios in this conflict. 4-to-1 overall, and 9-to-1 for children. If you weren't aware of this, then you as well have been posting from an uninformed point of view.
The data by the way are from B'Tselem, an Israeli charitable organization that all sides concede to have the best available data on these matters. You can google them and maybe take the time to learn a thing or two while you are there...
My point was that I bet that if the Palestinians believed what they did and held a Christian point of view, many people who support them now would not. And yes, the Palestinian "resistance" groups have been uniformly anti-Semitic, racist, homophobic, and anti-democratic. They don't want to establish a liberal democracy in the Middle East, they want to continue this damn thing after they get their state. They want the whole thing.
Also, you leave out that children killed by Israel are often caught in the cross-fire or have been used as human shield and you also leave out that the Palestinians regularly attack children as part of their strategy.
The only reason why Israel kills more civilians is because they have the bigger guns, not because they are the more bloodthirsty.
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What I was taught, and what I learned
