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Is there some reason you can't comprehend that the higher bracket still affects only higher incomes not middle class incomes?
Yes, because Norway has actual tax bracket income cutoffs, just like in the US. What about that do you not understand?
In Norway, incomes above $117,299.03 are in the highest tax rate bracket.
In the US, one has to reach an income of $414,800 to hit the highest tax rate bracket.
Recognize the difference?
Let's put US income at $117,299.03 and above in the top 39.6% US tax bracket. PLUS add a 25% VAT tax on top of that. Then, we'll tax like Norway and can have the nice social program benefits they have.
Who cares about average wealth? Median wealth per capita is much more relevant.
And let's hear your justification as to why the median wealth per capita is "much more relevant" than the average (mean) wealth. Lay it out for us.
Methinks it is (just as it often is with a statistician who is trying to sell something or back an opinion) just because the number is closer to the point you would like to make. But, perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps you actually have a dozen statistics books on your shelves (which you've thoroughly read and digested) and you actually have the mathematical background to back your claim up.
We'll wait while you crunch the numbers and perform the tests.
We can't have all the things Norway has because we don't have a million barrels of oil per person like Norway does.
Average US take home pay is $41K and average wealth is $163K compared to Norway's average income of $33K and average wealth of $17K....so the average American is 9 times wealthier despite the huge oil revenues per capita that Norway has. Source is OECD.
We do have the oil. We just elect not to socialize it.
Norway's pension fund now owns and average of 1.3% of all companies in the world. Norway's pension system is now so ludicrously wealthy that it'd equate to over $190,000 per person in the country. And here I thought countries with more socialized forms of health care, education, and taxation systems were doomed to utter failure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf
North Sea oil.
From the linked article - "Norway is a major oil producer, and it has plowed its energy earnings into the fund in order to fund pensions and other government expenses."
Back when oil was first discovered offshore, the government of Norway acted on the belief that the mineral wealth of the nation should benefit its citizens.
It wouldn't have happened without the oil.
But it also wouldn't have happened without the social democratic culture of Norway.
Yes indeed. Even for the huge sized USA, $1 Trillion would make a good powerful investment of some sort (education, provide broadband for every zip code in the nation, or a good "moon shot" type infrastructure upgrade program, take your pick or some combination thereof).
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf
the government of Norway acted on the belief that the mineral wealth of the nation should benefit its citizens"
Which shows that governments insist that their natural or productive wealth should benefit the bulk of its citizens (as opposed to big shareholders overwhelmingly, if not exclusively) is an excellent way to secure your citizens' quality of life. Something pretty important considering that several governments got overthrown for neglecting to do just that -- oil or no oil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf
But it also wouldn't have happened without the social democratic culture of Norway.
Yep again. Norway could have simply given the oil companies tax breaks or other kinds of sweetheart deals that let them keep the original investment. But they didn't - because they realized that the common people must come first. A person does need basic food, clothing, and shelter to have a realistically humane quality of life. A person does not need to a home in Beverly Hills or Belgravia, caviar, and Ralph Laruen or Louis Vitton attire to have that kind of life
Norway's pension fund now owns and average of 1.3% of all companies in the world. Norway's pension system is now so ludicrously wealthy that it'd equate to over $190,000 per person in the country. And here I thought countries with more socialized forms of health care, education, and taxation systems were doomed to utter failure?
They are a much smaller population country and they don't have as many social parasites taking from the system. They also have a better work ethic than Americans.
We do have the oil. We just elect not to socialize it.
Which maybe we should have but that's another issue. Norway has been an oil exporter and US has been an oil importer for decades....which combined with their very low population has allowed Norway to build this huge fund which kudos to them for doing.
I care very much about wealth and the fact that the average American in 9 times wealthier than the average Norwegian is super relevant.
Also, after taxes, the average Norwegian doesn't have money to do squat even though they live in a country that has become super rich from oil. Also, the cost of living is so high that after you take that income, half it for taxes, and pay super high rates for everything, you have nothing left for fun (or wealth building).
I agree that if you're an unmotivated leech that wants to latch on to a government teat and suck for all you're worth, Norway is about the best country you could find.
Who cares if the average American is nine times wealthier if most of it is concentrated at the top?
The median income of 431k NOK / 54k USD after tax is AFTER tax. There is VAT (10-25%), car tax (EVs are exempt from VAT and most other taxes) and other taxes related to consumption (like alcohol, tobacco). The inheritance tax is gone and the property tax rate is low or even non-existent in many places.
The COL is high, but you do not need a private health insurance (huge savings), and the generous welfare system (unemployment, sickness, child-rearing) makes for a more stress-free life for the average taxpayer.
It is actually easier to become rich in Norway than in the US. That explains why Norway has more dollar millionaires and billionaires per capita than the US.
Who cares if the average American is nine times wealthier if most of it is concentrated at the top?
The median income of 431k NOK / 54k USD after tax is AFTER tax. There is VAT (10-25%), car tax (EVs are exempt from VAT and most other taxes) and other taxes related to consumption (like alcohol, tobacco). The inheritance tax is gone and the property tax rate is low or even non-existent in many places.
The COL is high, but you do not need a private health insurance (huge savings), and the generous welfare system (unemployment, sickness, child-rearing) makes for a more stress-free life for the average taxpayer.
It is actually easier to become rich in Norway than in the US. That explains why Norway has more dollar millionaires and billionaires per capita than the US.
Yes, because Norway has actual tax bracket income cutoffs, just like in the US. What about that do you not understand?
In Norway, incomes above $117,299.03 are in the highest tax rate bracket.
In the US, one has to reach an income of $414,800 to hit the highest tax rate bracket.
Recognize the difference?
Let's put US income at $117,299.03 and above in the top 39.6% US tax bracket. PLUS add a 25% VAT tax on top of that. Then, we'll tax like Norway and can have the nice social program benefits they have.
You stated that the middle class have the highest tax burden in Norway, they do not. Incomes above 100k are not middle class incomes in Norway, do you understand that?
Which maybe we should have but that's another issue. Norway has been an oil exporter and US has been an oil importer for decades....which combined with their very low population has allowed Norway to build this huge fund which kudos to them for doing.
It is a very pertinent issue. We the people may have benefited from oil exports for a very long time. We the people are not necessarily in the best interest of Capitalism.
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