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The fire fighters and LE, for the most part, did nothing. Only a few dozen LE were assigned to the riots. Probably most, agreed with the rioters.
Father is long gone.
He never expressed regret. In fact, just the opposite. He was proud and loud. He was also a member of some sort of KKK clan. The propaganda material was all over the apartments we lived in. He was a violent man from a violent family- the hillbillies. One did not debate with him, ever.
His hatered even carried over to the food we ate. We were not allowed to consume food products that came from companies that employed black people who "stole good jobs from whites". He would walk into the kitchens of diners just to see who was cooking the food. Then there were the Jews.... This was our normal.
My mother eventually divorced him, once my sister and I left home which we did as soon as we were done with high school.
I mentioned this before, but I'm mentioning this just for the purpose of this post. I live in Georgia, and I'min the part of Georgia where Alabama is 45-50 minutes away. 45 minutes west of Atlanta, 45-50 minutes east of the AL/GA border. I am somewhat familiar with the culture you mentioned in terms of where your father hails from. My high school had a decent size "redneck" constituency. Why the vast majority had no affiliation with the Klan, racism was still a big issue in high school, in the early 2000s. One man told me that when he was in high school (in the mid to late 1970s) Klan rallies were held at my old high school.
That "hillbilly" culture, I see similarities between that and hood rat culture. Violent behavior, touchy pride, the attitude of "you disrespect me expect to be assaulted or killed". I faced bullying from both hood rats and the rednecks. And this wasn't in a "hood" area. It was an exurb of the Atlanta metropolitan area. It gets alot of suburban growth, but still has that "Confederate" feel when you go to certain areas.
Hatred to that degree is scary. I don't think it's healthy either. That level of hatred is hard on the heart. I would wonder how he would know which food companies employed Blacks. Propaganda everywhere. He was hoping to produce another generation of hatred.
I ask about your father because there are many things in history that we learn, and then we understand that people make history. I've lived in several places in the USA. Living in Georgia, at least the part of Georgia I went to middle school and high school at, left a strange impact. There is a museum that used to be the Black school for that county. There are still people who believe that Lost Cause myth regarding the Civil War. In 2017. I often wonder about those who protested integration, those who spit on students trying to integrate the schools, those who were part of the violence perpetrated by the KKK during the 60s. The ringleader for the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham, he was found, imprisoned, and died there. I wonder about those who are still alive. What is murky is what happened to those who were part of the virulent resistance against integration. Some have died. There are still those alive today who were part of that. How do they look at what happened in those days compared to today?
Actually....some of those things are not bad ideals. However, in a city like Detroit, with 139 square miles and some areas sparsely populated.....the police force are spread to thin to do all that stuff and the city is too poor to hire the amount of cops that could make such a plan feasible. Stuff like that works more in extremely high density cities with lots of foot traffic.
NYC is 309 square miles with 34,500 police officers. That breaks down to 111 police officers per square mile. On the other hand, Detroit is 139 square miles with 1600 police officers, which breaks down to 11 police officers per square mile. Hence, criminals are much less likely to cross paths with a police officer than in higher density cities with larger budgets for police.
This is not rocket science. The murder rate has been ebbing and flowing for years. It usually is a function of illegal drug activity. When there is a hot profitable new drug......market share violence increases which ramps up the culture of violence in these communities and conditions others that it is a kill or be killed world. Thus, people arm themselves and when any little conflict ensues....you have to be the first to pull the trigger out of fear that the other person is going to pull it on you first. Homicides beget homicides.
Hence, legalizing drugs and taking the profit out of illegal drug dealing should be considered. If not, then let the major drug crews dominate a city and dissuade challengers. Every time police take down a crew other crews war for their territory and the body count rises. Perceptually taking down crews inadvertently perpetuates more violence. The drugs are not going away. There will always be people who are going to fill the vacuum left when a crew or organization is taken down. That keeps blood in the streets.
I agree with you on pretty much everything here, except for the legalizing of drugs. Marijuana sure, all the others, no way. Although , again, you are correct , there is no way to make it go away. The thing is , many of the shootings being reported on the news aren't drug related. Like I said before, its a street culture thing, disrespect cannot be tolerated so you must be killed. That is what we've been seeing.
I'd like to try. First, it might infringe on some rights and seem strict but like you said, this problem has been going on for many many years, its time to get tough.
First, an evaluation of all the cities with high crime rates needs to be done. A target rate needs to be worked out. The cities that are over it get some changes implemented.
1) Release all the prisoners that are in for petty marijuana charges, provided these weren't plea bargained charges for other heavier ones.
2) Release prisoners that are first timers with non violent crimes into some sort of work release system. Amazon was thinking of coming to Detroit, maybe try and work with them to help these people get back on their feet and move forward from their mistakes.
3) Make a statement to the citizens of the city that they have 6 months to make whatever firearms they have legal, or if one is not legal to possess one, give them a chance to turn them in. Also state that anyone caught with an illegal firearm gets a mandatory 10 year sentence and anyone using a deadly weapon in a crime gets and automatic 20 year sentence. No plea bargains. Murder gets life. These are regardless of age.
4) Start programs in middle schools to try inform children on the dangers of violence, firearms, etc. Try to get them involved in sports , college prep , etc.
5) Impose a mandatory curfew of anyone under the age of 25. If under the age of 25 and working at night during the curfew , you need a work permit. Anyone caught out after curfew without permission gets 1 year.
6) Impose stop and frisk. See a car all tinted out slowly cruising a neighborhood , pull it over and search it. See a group of kids hanging out at a street corner, stop and search.
Two to Five years of this and I'm willing to bet we see a dramatic reduction in violence and crime.
I live in a suburb and would have no problems seeing this implemented there.
I agree with 1 and 2. No one should be in prison for smoking a joint. I also agree with working. People who work are less likely to re-offend than the unemployed ex-con.
#3, I think cities need to look at their gun laws. Baltimore and Newark have some of the strictest guns laws in the nation. However, those cities have severe murder problems. It needs to be made easier for law abiding citizens to arm themselves. Go hard with criminals, but make sure the law abiding can arm themselves easier.
4 and 5 I have big problems with. Both of those are unconstitutional. You can't subject adults to a curfew unless there are riots, or some kind of natural disaster. As for Stop and Frisk, that is unconstitutional based on how it operates on less than probable cause. Unreasonable search and seizure.
Basically, if you want a police state, go live in a dictatorship. Actually, Black Americans lived in a quasi-dictatorship for a long time. This didn't stop high murder rates back in the 1950s. Example, Atlanta,GA. Atlanta had one of the highest murder rates in the USA back in the 1950s. In fact, the most murderous cities in the USA were in the Jim Crow-led South. Blacks were more likely to have the book thrown at them than anyone else. Jim Crow was basically a dictatorship directed specifically at Blacks. Didn't stop the murder problems. One report mentioned that the motive for many murders was revenge.
One problem we've not considered is mental health.
I agree with 1 and 2. No one should be in prison for smoking a joint. I also agree with working. People who work are less likely to re-offend than the unemployed ex-con.
#3, I think cities need to look at their gun laws. Baltimore and Newark have some of the strictest guns laws in the nation. However, those cities have severe murder problems. It needs to be made easier for law abiding citizens to arm themselves. Go hard with criminals, but make sure the law abiding can arm themselves easier.
4 and 5 I have big problems with. Both of those are unconstitutional. You can't subject adults to a curfew unless there are riots, or some kind of natural disaster. As for Stop and Frisk, that is unconstitutional based on how it operates on less than probable cause. Unreasonable search and seizure.
Basically, if you want a police state, go live in a dictatorship. Actually, Black Americans lived in a quasi-dictatorship for a long time. This didn't stop high murder rates back in the 1950s. Example, Atlanta,GA. Atlanta had one of the highest murder rates in the USA back in the 1950s. In fact, the most murderous cities in the USA were in the Jim Crow-led South. Blacks were more likely to have the book thrown at them than anyone else. Jim Crow was basically a dictatorship directed specifically at Blacks. Didn't stop the murder problems. One report mentioned that the motive for many murders was revenge.
One problem we've not considered is mental health.
As far as 4 and 5 , of course they are unconstitutional. And which party would scream the loudest about it...I'm guessing the Democrats...kind of makes one wonder. The fact is, do we want these problems gone or not ? I think it was you that mentioned it's been like this since the 50's...doesn't that tell you what we are currently doing doesn't work ?
Come on, a cop see's a tinted out '74 Deuce and a quarter rolling on blades creeping thru in the Brightmoor district at 3:30 am... chances are someone in their has an illegal firearm and is looking to shoot up a house. Sorry profiling is going to be correct in this case. Or a group of teenagers hanging around a party store / gas station , again at 3:30 am...same thing, one of them has a gun and is up to no good. It is what it is.
As far as mental health, you would think that someone that is willing to take a life over a bag of chips has some sort of mental issues..sadly I think that is more culture related. Someone beating their girlfriend or child to death, sure I'll go with mental health issues.
As far as 4 and 5 , of course they are unconstitutional. And which party would scream the loudest about it...I'm guessing the Democrats...kind of makes one wonder. The fact is, do we want these problems gone or not ? I think it was you that mentioned it's been like this since the 50's...doesn't that tell you what we are currently doing doesn't work ?
Come on, a cop see's a tinted out '74 Deuce and a quarter rolling on blades creeping thru in the Brightmoor district at 3:30 am... chances are someone in their has an illegal firearm and is looking to shoot up a house. Sorry profiling is going to be correct in this case. Or a group of teenagers hanging around a party store / gas station , again at 3:30 am...same thing, one of them has a gun and is up to no good. It is what it is.
As far as mental health, you would think that someone that is willing to take a life over a bag of chips has some sort of mental issues..sadly I think that is more culture related. Someone beating their girlfriend or child to death, sure I'll go with mental health issues.
Libertarians would also be screaming loud. If you're going to violates the Constitutional rights of people, then you might as well go down the path of dictatorship, because that is what it is. Benjamin Franklin had some choice words for this. "He who would trade essential liberties for temporary security deserves neither".
And like I said before, you need probable cause to pull someone over. Unless there is probable cause, you are violating the constitution. Culture and mental health are issues that violating the Constitution won't solve.
And I noticed you ignored everything I said about Atlanta.
Libertarians would also be screaming loud. If you're going to violates the Constitutional rights of people, then you might as well go down the path of dictatorship, because that is what it is. Benjamin Franklin had some choice words for this. "He who would trade essential liberties for temporary security deserves neither".
And like I said before, you need probable cause to pull someone over. Unless there is probable cause, you are violating the constitution. Culture and mental health are issues that violating the Constitution won't solve.
And I noticed you ignored everything I said about Atlanta.
You asked for solutions, I posted some. The million dollar question is how to lower crime and violence without violating rights. Again, myself personally.... I think it would work. It's a moot point though, like you said it is unconstitutional.
As far as Atlanta, I really don't think the problems and their solutions from 1950 are the same for 2017. Our culture, and country is completely different now.
You asked for solutions, I posted some. The million dollar question is how to lower crime and violence without violating rights. Again, myself personally.... I think it would work. It's a moot point though, like you said it is unconstitutional.
As far as Atlanta, I really don't think the problems and their solutions from 1950 are the same for 2017. Our culture, and country is completely different now.
Actually, I asked that person what HE/SHE thinks should be done about Black people committing crimes, since that was the topic said person keeps pointing to. So far, I have not heard from that person.
And individuals who don' respect laws aren't going to be affected either way if Constitutional rights are violated. They operate outside of the law. The people who will have the most issues are law abiding citizens. I would not want my rights being violated. Live Free or Die.
I bring up Atlanta because that city has had a high murder rate for a long time.
How can someone be so divorced from reality that they can arrive at a conclusion that goes in the face of all metrics since they've been keeping records?
If you can't examine datasets and look for trends or correlations, why bother even recording them? If it truly were an individual thing, why is crime higher among the black population across all levels of income, education and any other metric of socioeconomic achievement?
Can you prove that crime is higher among Blacks across ALL education levels and income levels? I can find proof of more Blacks committing violent crimes, but I don't see any evidence of college-educated, employed Black professionals being any more violent than Whites of the same education/professional status. I do see alot more evidence of impoverished Blacks and Blacks living in the ghettos committing alot of violent crimes.
By the way, I asked you a question earlier, and you ignored it. You are keep bringing up Blacks and crime. Since this is a major concern for you, answer my question. What do YOU propose we do about it? If it is major concern, what do you think out to be done about it?
No, I'm sure we get it. Crime comes in all shapes, colors and sizes. But when one miniscule part of society is responsible for the majority of crimes over and over, that can't be swept under the rug. When the entire country as a whole had been reducing overall crime the last 30 years, except for certain hot spots across the nation, that should be the wake up call. Unfortunately is isn't, because neither side is adult enough to discuss it without being insulted or accused.
Black hoods, Hispanic Hoods and White areas of Texas and Alaska saw some of if not the biggest reductions in crimes from the 1980s and 1990s.
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