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Okay. I checked it out. Perhaps your version of what Wikipedia says is a bit exaggerated.
Wiki says "Critical comments appearing on Internet forums, bulletin boards, blogs, vlogs or any major portals such as Sohu and Sina are usually erased within minutes."
You said "in China there are no comments permitted."
This is why I was able to find comments made by Chinese that were critical of China following articles on Breitbart and Reuters,
I don't think the Chinese are that good at eliminating dissent. But paranoia is a great deterrent especially among the paranoid.
Last edited by Bob The Builder; 03-26-2008 at 12:04 AM..
I found the comments following the second article more interesting than the content of the article itself which seemed to mismatch the title.
I'm wondering which of the comments you found more interesting than the article. By your own admission you don't believe that the monks themselves were violent and yet their sit ins ended in gunfire and arrests. You've built a fallacious wall around your mind with the paradigm that the chinese press says the protests were violent and you won't believe anything written by the exiles. The Chinese government is about as restrictive as any on earth at controlling what is or is not allowed to be reported.
What is your take on people being arrested and possibly killed for having a picture of the Dalai Lama?
Do you believe the Chinese government when they say "no one has been arrested" or do you believe that people are being arrested?
I wasn't cheerleading at all I just liked that chielgirl gave you some data to peruse that rebutted your position. I'm sure you won't answer my questions and equally sure you won't post any data/facts or links to support your position.
we are ok with china's behavior. we value wealth and ease more than freedom.
if it were not so we would never purchase goods made by an enslaved people.
i can see it i can taste it, even here on CD there are some posters, those that would
presume to take away the freedom of choice and presume to dictate personal matters,
where to eat, housing and choice of friends. i stand with freedom.
I have a dream.
I'm wondering which of the comments you found more interesting than the article. By your own admission you don't believe that the monks themselves were violent and yet their sit ins ended in gunfire and arrests. You've built a fallacious wall around your mind with the paradigm that the chinese press says the protests were violent and you won't believe anything written by the exiles. The Chinese government is about as restrictive as any on earth at controlling what is or is not allowed to be reported.
What is your take on people being arrested and possibly killed for having a picture of the Dalai Lama?
Do you believe the Chinese government when they say "no one has been arrested" or do you believe that people are being arrested?
I wasn't cheerleading at all I just liked that chielgirl gave you some data to peruse that rebutted your position. I'm sure you won't answer my questions and equally sure you won't post any data/facts or links to support your position.
I found all the comments more interesting than the article. Particularly the 12th, 27th, 35 and the the responses to those. But what was a real stand out was 57. The poster really hit it on the head.
I do not reject everything said by the exiles. I question them because they have an obvious reason to be biased and should be questioned. But in a black and white world it is all or nothing.
I don't think it is cool to get arrested or possibly killed for having a pic of the Dalai Lama. Do you have real evidence that that has happened in the last 20 years? or is this a convenient truism?
While you are at it, please provide me with a some support for your claim that the Chinese are saying "no one has been arrested". That is not believable. Someone is lying.
I do know that a some Chinese guy named Victor in Detroit was murdered because some unemployed auto workers thought he was Japanese. Not a State act you might say. I agree, the judge that gave the murderers parole for that killing... well that is a State act.
Last edited by Bob The Builder; 03-26-2008 at 01:25 AM..
we are ok with china's behavior. we value wealth and ease more than freedom.
if it were not so we would never purchase goods made by an enslaved people.
i can see it i can taste it, even here on CD there are some posters, those that would
presume to take away the freedom of choice and presume to dictate personal matters,
where to eat, housing and choice of friends. i stand with freedom.
I have a dream.
Huck
You are right. If people really are that convinced that China is so evil, they should stand behind their convictions. One poster thinks what is going on in China is horrible and is spouting off about it, yet her husband is going there on business. Unless he is a spy or is there to help protest, its the money that is taking him there. She says that they separate work from politics. Its nice to be able to do that. Then I could become an arms dealer.
Bob, how do you feel about the "embedded" reporters in Iraq? Censorship? How do you feel about the US forces "accidentally" bombing Al Jezeera? Accident?
I found all the comments more interesting than the article. Particularly the 12th, 27th, 35 and the the responses to those. But what was a real stand out was 57. The poster really hit it on the head.
I do not reject everything said by the exiles. I question them because they have an obvious reason to be biased and should be questioned. But in a black and white world it is all or nothing.
I don't think it is cool to get arrested or possibly killed for having a pic of the Dalai Lama. Do you have real evidence that that has happened in the last 20 years? or is this a convenient truism?
While you are at it, please provide me with a some support for your claim that the Chinese are saying "no one has been arrested". That is not believable. Someone is lying.
I do know that a some Chinese guy named Victor in Detroit was murdered because some unemployed auto workers thought he was Japanese. Not a State act you might say. I agree, the judge that gave the murderers parole for that killing... well that is a State act.
Did you actually read it? It clearly states the Chinese government said no one was arrested (even though there was gun fire according to numerous sources) and the article states witnesses said roughly 60 were detained.
What is the point of your anecdotal reference to a crime in Detroit? That the US is engaged in state supported violence against Chinese mistaken as Japanese nationals?
Do I have personal evidence that having a picture of the Dalai Lama got someone arrested? No. Do you feel this is propoganda and that numerous accounts that can be found online are all fabricated?
Do you agree the Chinese government totally suppresses free press and controls virtually every media outlet in the country as well as monitoring/preventing internet traffic into and out of the country?
I agree the exiles are biased, but the Chinese government is equally(or moreso since they are the ones preventing outside observers from seeing first hand) biased and totally controls the public message. They even accidently leaked a document at one point basically outlining their plan to discredit the Dalai Lama wherever he goes by using as much propaganda as possible.
Any government that has to totally control the press/TV/internet for an entire nation is hiding something.
Bob, how do you feel about the "embedded" reporters in Iraq? Censorship? How do you feel about the US forces "accidentally" bombing Al Jezeera? Accident?
Chielgirl
I was asked to take a survey years ago about Stanford hospital. The questioner asked me bout how I felt about their service. I responded by saying I don't know because I never received care from them. the questioner became uncomfortable that my answer did not fit into her list of possible answers. She went on to ask me how I felt about some other aspect of the hospital and my answer was the same.
How I feel about something or how anyone feels about something is just that. A feeling.
how do you feel about the "embedded" reporters in Iraq? Censorship? How do you feel about the US forces "accidentally" bombing Al Jezeera? Accident?
Here goes. I feel they are brave.
Censorship. In general I feel it is not good. BUT, if it can save lives, it can be good. I remember going to a friend's office the day of the Rodney King riots, One of the office mates had a business down in LA. When he heard the problems were staring, he hopped on a plane and went to his warehouse. He was killed that day leaving his wife and kids behind. Had there been a media blackout, he would be alive.
I mentioned in another thread that I have a SIL who was areporter for StarTV in HK. She is persona non grata in China. I was in her bathroom in the UK a year or two ago and she had framed a copy of an article from Vietnam calling her deranged. She had said that in Vietnam there were 400 underground churches and that people could not worship there. The VN article said she must not have been around during Xmas.
I asked my Vietnamese friends later if that were true. They said of course not. I went to VN last year and saw for myself several Catholic churches filled to the brim with worshipers.
Ink is cheap. I have to go with what I see. Reporters can often get away with making stuff up because the public they write to are already biased toward believing.
When I was a baby lawyer, I was representing a large national bank. A plaintiff claimed she was sexually assaulted in their parking lot. I didn't know if she was or not. When the question came up, my opposing counsel had a conniption fit. How could I even doubt her. Believe me, I was open to the possibility. Most in my position would not even grant her the possibility that it even happened.
I am now being faced with the same type of argument. I don't know if it is fact or not. You have your standards and I have mine.
The article that you mentioned by the Economist reporter seems very credible. It appeared to say the Chinese were doing whatever they could to stop the violence.
The article I mentioned in the NYT stating that the Chinese authorities backed off also seems credible.
The article from the (Times UK) says the Protests ended in hail of gunfire but somehow produced no injuries seems a bit dishonest.
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