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Old 10-01-2017, 04:55 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,931,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
full "retirement" is an idea only a couple of generations old. It was based on a the temporary condition of the US being the only prominent industrial power after WWII.

Everywhere else in the world, and in all the world of prior history, if anyone was able to fully retire, it was because he was living with his children.

So the US is being forced back into the reality the rest of the world has always known.
It has more to do with Globalism and Global Corporations that do not care about any country and as was foretold, everyone would be poorer while the top elite would only get richer, which is what is happening.

We need to end all trade agreements and place huge tariffs on foreign products
Many other countries already do the same like Germany and have a higher standard of living and jobs than we do
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Old 10-01-2017, 04:55 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
12,350 posts, read 9,636,341 times
Reputation: 13891
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
It has been downhill for most Americans ever since the Big Corporations took over our government

How Corporate Lobbyists Conquered American Democracy
How Corporate Lobbyists Conquered American Democracy, page 1
Thank you.

Excellent series of posts.
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:01 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,931,090 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Retiring isn't a right. For thousands of years people had to work until the end.

I don't see any other animals who get to retire a couple of decades (relatively speaking) before the end.

If you want to retire, make sacrifices decades before so that you can.
I don't see how it is also right that some people game the stock market in order to get other peoples money and retire at 30.

Everyone else did all the hard productive work so parasites like that can laze away on the beach
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:06 PM
JRR
 
Location: Middle Tennessee
8,114 posts, read 5,565,658 times
Reputation: 15565
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
I don't see how it is also right that some people game the stock market in order to get other peoples money and retire at 30.

Everyone else did all the hard productive work so parasites like that can laze away on the beach
Just out of curiosity, what do you consider as gaming the stock market?
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:08 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
12,350 posts, read 9,636,341 times
Reputation: 13891
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
It has more to do with Globalism and Global Corporations that do not care about any country and as was foretold, everyone would be poorer while the top elite would only get richer, which is what is happening.

We need to end all trade agreements and place huge tariffs on foreign products
Many other countries already do the same like Germany and have a higher standard of living and jobs than we do
And the globalists love to trot out that argument....that the people "lived too well" for a couple of decades after WWII and it was inevitable and unavoidable that they got put back in their place. Makes me see red, but they'll keep repeating it as long as there is someone, somewhere that will buy into it. Fortunately, there aren't many left who do.
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:10 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,931,090 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
It was simpler times when your grandfather worked. You are right about consumerism, but it's up to the people to resist the constant barrage of advertising trying to get them to part with their money.

Right now I have an iPhone 6 sitting on my desk. Apple now has the iPhone 8 and the iPhone 10 ($1,000 bucks). I'm sure it's cool but why would I, my phone works just fine but that isn't stopping people from buying it instead of putting that money aside or investing for their retirement years. Also the kids have been spoiled, some even living at home living on their parents dime well after they should have left home, I'll bet it never crossed their mind that their parents could use the money for their retirement.
If everyone cut back on spending, then business would be forced to cut prices in order to lure in customers and we would be right back at the same place again

If everyone quit buying stuff all together, then we would be in a depression and jobs would be lost and the rich would suffer as well.
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:13 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,931,090 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
As I said before, the income limits for the safety net is so low that it is for people who never really tried to make anything of themselves in the first place. The middle class won't qualify for it when they get older even though they paid for that safety net all their working years.
I think it would help going back to a pension style system.
Corporations encourage their employees to invest in the markets, because the upper management and the Corporate Stocks benefit from it.

They are not doing their employees any favors


They are also the ones that own the lions share of the wealth on Wall Street while majority of Americans do not have much there.
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:18 PM
 
3,221 posts, read 1,719,813 times
Reputation: 2197
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Retiring isn't a right. For thousands of years people had to work until the end.

I don't see any other animals who get to retire a couple of decades (relatively speaking) before the end.

If you want to retire, make sacrifices decades before so that you can.
Well maybe it should be a right? I don't want people to have to suffer in their old age. What you're describing is social darwinism, and I don't really subscribe to that. It feels heartless to me, and unnecessary.
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:20 PM
 
Location: moved
13,572 posts, read 9,588,338 times
Reputation: 23317
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
...Being in construction management I see it where a good portion of our hard-working field employees are going to be lucky if they make it to age 62 much less 67. I'm still working and the only reason that I can, at age 69, as a solid 80% of my time is in an office environment or I wouldn't make it.
This eloquently illustrates one of the great differences between blue-collar and white-collar employment. Said difference isn’t really a matter of pay or benefits, as plenty of tradesmen outearn office-denizens. But decades of continuous employment differently affects the body, depending on whether one wields a pneumatic-drill, or a fountain-pen. A good example is one of my local lawyer-friends. He’s 80, a partner at a celebrated local firm, and still practices full-time. There’s a photo-collage hanging in a hallway of the local courthouse, with pictures of attorneys, judges and prosecutors then in practice. Some of those posters date back almost to the Civil War. One is from 1962. And there’s my lawyer friend, with a smiling fresh youthful face, staring obliquely at the camera in 1962, with a coy but enthusiastic optimism, just beginning his car. 55 years later, he never misses a day at the office, and could easily pass for a 60-year-old. I might retire before him, and he’s old enough to be my father.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
And then there is the certain smugness among some that I find a little nauseating. Sometimes bad things happen to good people and a good number of people did save like they were supposed to say did invest like they're supposed to and ended up with nothing but their social security as an example I'll give you those that invested in Bernie Madoff Securities, WorldCom and Enron to name just three.
This is very true, regardless of our politics, or the color of our collar. Even the accumulation of multiple millions can be wiped out, through any imaginable (or unimaginable) exigency. We never know. One of my favorite phrases: "It's never too late to fail".

But there are aspects of our fate, that do at least partially remain within our control. This, I think, is the point of those who exhort us to save early and invest prudently. I lost a good chunk in Worldcom. Also Lucent, Global Crossings and JDS Uniphase... but overall recovered. How? It wasn't brilliance or risky bets paying off. Not at all. It was a bovine steadfastness, coupled with small allocations here and there, never counting on any particular one to do well (or poorly).

And then there's this....

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
If they didn't panic and sell they are WAY ahead of the game now. I didn't sell anything and my stock portfolio is 10% plus compounded since 2003.
Yes, but is it 10% annual/compounded since 2000? 2003 was another nadir of the market. I fully agree, that the recovery since March 2009 has been spectacular. But 2009 capped a “lost decade”, and persons who by then had been invested for several prior decades, were aghast at what happened to those wonderful 1980s and 1990s, when everything grew nicely, and an investor could do no wrong.

Recover, yes. And then some. But even to flourish, isn't the same as to meteorically rise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Retire on $70k? lol

You do realize that if someone gave you $70k in one calendar year there is a gift tax. Money can't even be given without the government wanting a piece.
Presumably the original assertion stipulated $70K/year, not a lump sum. And $70K, even with an expensive ACA insurance policy and no pension, is plenty. There's a gentleman in the Bay Area, who posts frequently in the Investment forum... earns, by my estimation, around $50K gross - and yet, manages to save a considerable sum annually. How? No children, no pets, humble studio apartment, and prudent self-control. Yes, not even he could forestall a medical disaster, job-loss, or some other catastrophe. But he's doing well, with what's within the purview of his control. What more could be asked of us?
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:32 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,931,090 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
And here's the former gas station attendant/ janitor who managed to accumulate $8 million in wealth through frugal living and long term investments :

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/09/here...m-fortune.html
That would be a statistical anomaly rather than something everyone could reproduce.

Those investments included AT&T, Bank of America, CVS, Deere, GE and General Motors.

In other words he got lucky on the ground floor
Most have their investments managed by the "professionals" and returns are paltry
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