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Not even in the ballpark. If you reread what I said, it was that possession should not be illegal. I said nothing about selling or distributing, although I favor a system where certain drugs could be purchased at legally owned and operated facilities, much like marijuana is handled in Colorado. I'm a fan of Portugal's drug policy, which treats drugs as a medical issue rather than a criminal one.
Last I checked, it is still illegal to kill another person in most instances. I didn't say anything about changing that fact, did I?
Fair enough...
Now that that's settled, I am reminded why I avoid these gun threads and that I've got better things to do with the rest of my day today. Thanks.
I am not making a cause argument. All we know for sure is that from 1994 to present, an increase in gun ownership occurred and a decrease in gun related crime occurred. By simple logic, the only thing you can say for sure is that an increase in gun ownership did not correlate with, happen simultaneously with, or cause an increase in gun related crime BECAUSE NO INCREASE OCCURRED IN GUN RELATED CRIME, regardless of input variable.
For whatever reasons, and there could be zero to infinity, gun related homicide DECREASED during the same period that per person and total gun ownership INCREASED. I am not claiming one caused the other, why these graphs are the way they are, etc. But I am saying, and can say definitely just looking at the data is that an increase in gun ownership DOES NOT CORRELATE IN ANY WAY with an increase in overall gun related homicide because gun related homicide DECREASED every year observed during the increase in gun ownership.
You can't say that because other variables have not been controlled for.
It is possible that gun ownership does correlate with gun related homicide but other factors have masked that correlation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87
I broke the variables down based on numbers published...
Numbers published by the CDC, FBI, Justice Department...
There isn't a metabolic efficiency or deficiency rate involved in the commission of an implement with the end result of death...
Therefore-your argument of variables has been presented by me, 9,185 criminal acts resulting in the extinguishing of life. Is cause for stricter legislation, and reinterpretation of a constitutionally protected right in vain of public health and safety, with other staggering numbers that give cause for a more significant rise in death at the hand of another whether intentionally or not? I'm understanding that correctly?
I am not making a cause argument. All we know for sure is that from 1994 to present, an increase in gun ownership occurred and a decrease in gun related crime occurred. By simple logic, the only thing you can say for sure is that an increase in gun ownership did not correlate with, happen simultaneously with, or cause an increase in gun related crime BECAUSE NO INCREASE OCCURRED IN GUN RELATED CRIME, regardless of input variable.
It is possible that gun ownership does correlate with gun related homicide but other factors have masked that correlation.
Which other factors?
We can say one thing even if gun ownership has a causative relationship it's marginal. The variance between gun ownership and violent crime is too great to have more than at best a marginally causative relationship. Further even with that theorized causative relationship there must be far more causative effects than gun ownership, it would be much more beneficial to identify these and promote or limit (depending on positive or negative effects on violent crime rates) these effects than further limitations on gun ownership.
So you're saying the published numbers of entities that research death rates are wrong because they do not jive with the anti gun narrative?
If there are numbers published in the rates that is suggesting firearms are a significant threat to public health and safety, by all means present them.
If that's what you truly believe, there should be NO problem whatsoever with how many Americans own guns and how many each American owns.
We have one absolute truth - correlation does not equal causation
And there are 3 possibilities.
1) More guns causes more gun deaths
2) More guns causes less gun deaths
3) More guns has no impact on gun deaths
Now, given that correlation does not equal causation,
If 1 is true, then there may be a problem with how many guns are owned by Americans; Less guns should be owned to lead to less deaths.
If 2 is true, then there may be a problem with how many guns are owned by Americans ; More guns should be owned to lead to less deaths.
If 3 is true, then it doesn't matter how many guns are owned by Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Exactly.
Yep.
But you never said this; you said the opposite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir
Which other factors?
Root causes of violence, crime, etc...
Quote:
We can say one thing even if gun ownership has a causative relationship it's marginal. The variance between gun ownership and violent crime is too great to have more than at best a marginally causative relationship. Further even with that theorized causative relationship there must be far more causative effects than gun ownership, it would be much more beneficial to identify these and promote or limit (depending on positive or negative effects on violent crime rates) these effects than further limitations on gun ownership.
If limitations on gun ownership do have a positive impact on violent crime rates, then it may make sense to further limit gun ownership while also identifying, and addressing, other factors.
Exactly. Gun ownership, or even increased gun ownership DOES NOT CORRELATE to the rate of gun homicides and nonfatal violent gun crimes.
Many of us understand that. The anti-gun crowd, doesn't.
You don't know that it doesn't.
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