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Old 10-21-2017, 11:48 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,909,678 times
Reputation: 3732

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
Yeah... firearms sure are the leading cause of death in this country. You are so totally right...
Did Learnme make this claim?

Quote:
Here's a thought, remove criminals incentive to commit crime. Allow citizens their God given constitutionally protected rights to keep and bear arms, and end gun free zones, and end prosecuting law abiding citizens who thwart threats to property life and liberty...
Gun free zones are like OSHA for criminals.
Allow teachers to be armed, you remove the incentive for a psycho to shoot up innocent children... Bank trucks offer far more incentive to be shot up and raided... yet psychos target schools. I wonder if being a gun free zone, with a response time from 911 being in the minutes to arrive, assess the situation and deploy, provides incentive... over the armed guards of the bank truck...
If the "psychos" are interested in terrorizing, then, no, targeting a bank truck wouldn't offer more incentive.

Quote:
Go further and gut the 8th amendment any act of violence either gets cruel and unusual punishment, or instead of 3 hots and a cot, and cable TV put them to work on infrastructure projects.
Why do you favor the 2nd ammendment to the 8th?

Quote:
It's an untapped labor market really.
Slavery has been continually tapped throughout history.

Quote:
They could learn a skilled trade and take pride in making the communities they serve a better place.
Here's an actual good idea.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:53 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,715 posts, read 44,496,734 times
Reputation: 13594
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Manufacturers don't have records of gun owners.
They do, for warranty purposes. Just like a big screen TV or vehicle is registered for a warranty.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:58 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,715 posts, read 44,496,734 times
Reputation: 13594
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
GCA 1968 requires neither of those things.
Can I go to Cabela's right now this second and buy a gun without submitting a completed 4473?
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:04 PM
 
10,493 posts, read 5,557,553 times
Reputation: 10552
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
They do, for warranty purposes. Just like a big screen TV or vehicle is registered for a warranty.
I know of no gun owners that register gun warranties. Do you register yours? Not saying it doesn't happen, but it isn't common. Especially when it isn't required for service (at least with the reputable manufacturers).
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:08 PM
 
10,493 posts, read 5,557,553 times
Reputation: 10552
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Can I go to Cabela's right now this second and buy a gun without submitting a completed 4473?
No, but that isn't what you said.

Here's your quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Don't be naĂŻve...

The federal Gun Control Act of 1968 mandated that all firearms have a serial number and that everyone who buys a gun fill out federal Form 4473.
Your quote about the requirements of the GCA '68 isn't accurate. Specifically, all firearms DON'T have to have a serial number, and everyone who buys a gun IS NOT required to fill out a form 4473.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:14 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,473,623 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
All good and fine. I've got a few different types of hammers too...

All understood and agreed until about there where you start in on the "scary black rifles." I suspect you pick that description for obvious reasons, but again, not my words. I might just point out, however, that the AR15 and/or M16 is not at all scary in the hands of some but awfully scary for all of us in the hands of others. I think this begins to better define where the focus of this issue/discussion should stay.

Secondly about the "intent" of the 2A. Any 6th grader should pretty well be able to explain what the 2A was/is about if they paid any attention to those lessons about the founding fathers and the writing of the constitution. Here the issue or debate is not about that intent but the extent to which that intent then relates to our reality today so as to justify the ownership of a "WMD" (that I know is no precise definition of any sort).

I have no trouble whatsoever understanding what you explain at all. My trouble is that so many people are naive enough to think we can arm ourselves to repel any modern day military like our own, to be "as well armed."

With all due respect, I call that the "minute men with musket argument," and it's just too cute, quaint and antiquated for words, or do you really want to discuss how we would fend off our US military when everything today is about supply lines anyway; food, water, energy. That argument is just too silly for words long before we even get to the part about matching firepower...

Again, this does not mean for me that banning weapons designed for military style assault will serve to stop incidents like Paddock pulled off, and again I'm not a "gun grabber," but I do find all too many arguments against gun control, like this one about our founding father's intent with the 2A sorely lacking in the context of our reality today.

Best I can do for now, since I have no more time to waste in this wasteland of another gun thread this morning, but I do appreciate your comment not so full of typical foolish rhetoric and insult. Best!
WMD is blowing things way out of proportion. No soldier marine airman or seaman can launch a nuke at their discretion in a firefight.

Your average field soldier has access to selective rate of fire weapons, belt fed machine guns, mortars, shoulder fired rockets and grenades.

To compare a Nuke/MOAB in the discussion is silly at best.

You want to compare modern time minute men... look at Iraq Afghanistan and Vietnam...

Odd how the Afghanistan populace could hold off Russians and America/Allied forces. Odd how rice paddy farmers in vietnam vs operation rolling thunder could hold back American and Allied forces...

All comes down to insurgency/guerilla warfare tactics vs bureaucratic rules of engagement/conventional tactics.

Talk to someone who served on the ground in Iraq. How the scumbags terrorized people over there.
They would do what's called crowd hugging. They'd shoot from or near a crowd of people to draw fire.
Name any battle where American forces ever did the same.

Yeah the military has a significant upper hand with tanks and drones and such. But would the military be able to fight dirty?

Remember, this is the same military that put a marine in prison for life for murder when he tossed a hand grenade into a building... and when they breached the door, he shot an enemy combatant that was wounded and still alive reaching for their weapon.

The proposed tyranical forces would be engaged at further distances and with Un conventional tactics.
If you want an example of tyranny in recent history Waco davidian stand off. Sure they were short a few fries of a happy meal. But did the ATF and FBI have to descend upon them like they did? Were they really a threat to society and themselves, so much so they had to bring in a tank and helicopters?
And say they were a threat to themselves. If they were "end of times prophets" and wanted to do a mass suicide... Wouldn't society been better off without the likes of them? If they were a threat to society, did they go on rampages in public or stay in the confines of their property? If they were a menace to society, and private citizens, threatening their life, their property, their liberty, by all means intervene to keep order, by all means allow the citizens to thwart an oppressive and evil doing force.

That's the question of tyranny.

At what point does the government own anyone's life to decide what is right and what is just for them? Tyranny is about control. It's not just about rounding citizens up like Nazi Germany or commit Mass genocide like in Bosnia...

Tyranny is any threat to liberty and freedom. Some argue the Bundy Ranch stand off as an action against tyranny.

Remember. Bureaucracy and agency of the government restricting liberty is tyranny.
When the questions of firearms are brought into it and the whole interpretation of minute men vs modern times we can make it fair and relevant. Without the NFA and without the Hughes amendment, access to everything the military has would be open.
Why the passing of the NFA?
Perhaps prohibition spawned the FBI to combat moonshiners and bootleggers with full auto devices. And the shiners and bootleggers were equally equipped and the government decided it's unfair that the citizenry have access to everything we have access to... we need to limit the serfs capacity to protect us from them.
Ironic the ones who grandstand for limits, happen to be elite celebrities and politicians a class of people who enjoy protection paid for and provided with the very implements they seek to ban?

So what exactly is your take on tyranny? And like I expressed in Nazi Germany can happen again thread... if Trump = Hitler, and the country is going to run rampant with nazis... Wouldn't you want the means to thwart evil and tyranny?
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:24 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,473,623 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
Did Learnme make this claim?


If the "psychos" are interested in terrorizing, then, no, targeting a bank truck wouldn't offer more incentive.


Why do you favor the 2nd ammendment to the 8th?


Slavery has been continually tapped throughout history.


Here's an actual good idea.

Why do I favor the 2nd to the 8th.
We have a broken justice system. Take away the tax payer funded 3 hots and a cot lift weights to over power guards and sodomize each other...

Look at the shooter in maryland. Work place violence event, committed by a person with a laundry list of charges who even had felony weapons charges. Yet only served 2 years and was back out to aquire the implement to carry out evil...

Why I favor the 2nd over the 8th.

It removes criminals incentive. Bigly. Harsh punishments and making prison miserable not comfortable also is how some criminals learn to become better criminals.

We have a common goal. Different ways to arrive there.

As you said yourself. Psychos are interested in terrorizing. So let's remove their incentive. Gun laws protect criminals. Not law abiding citizens.

I just have no tolerance for evil.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:44 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,909,678 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
Why do I favor the 2nd to the 8th.
We have a broken justice system. Take away the tax payer funded 3 hots and a cot lift weights to over power guards and sodomize each other...

Look at the shooter in maryland. Work place violence event, committed by a person with a laundry list of charges who even had felony weapons charges. Yet only served 2 years and was back out to aquire the implement to carry out evil...

Why I favor the 2nd over the 8th.

It removes criminals incentive. Bigly. Harsh punishments and making prison miserable not comfortable also is how some criminals learn to become better criminals.
If current prisons are "comfortable" then maybe instead of making the prisons worse, we need to make society better.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:49 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,715 posts, read 44,496,734 times
Reputation: 13594
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
I know of no gun owners that register gun warranties. Do you register yours? Not saying it doesn't happen, but it isn't common. Especially when it isn't required for service (at least with the reputable manufacturers).
Mine aren't registered. They're older weapons. However, at police request, and on any given day, ATF agents run about 1,500 gun traces; or about 370,000 a year.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:51 PM
 
10,493 posts, read 5,557,553 times
Reputation: 10552
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Mine aren't registered. They're older weapons. However, at police request, and on any given day, ATF agents run about 1,500 gun traces; or about 370,000 a year.
How effective are those traces? Especially since criminals don't tend to buy weapons from licensed dealers.
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