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Old 10-03-2017, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,264 posts, read 26,192,233 times
Reputation: 15637

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Of course it can. Even a rock can be used in that attack. In a venue like that, a truck would be far more deadly.

A silencer does NOT silence the gun like what the left and Hollywood want you to believe. The sound of gunfire would lose a few decibels and it's still FREAKING LOUD for any supersonic ammunition - bullets fly faster than the sound causing a sound boom. Subsonic ammunition can be suppressed much better, but subsonic ammunition is not as deadly as the supersonic at that distance.

How many more victims would it cause if the gunfire was slightly quieter? Nobody knows.

However, if the point is to save lives, I suggest we ban alcohol as alcohol has zero legitimate use and kills more people each year than guns. At least silencer can protect hearing and it's environmental friendly.

Mass murders like that are extremely rare events - we have better chance being stricken by lightening. It's not wise to form a policy based on extremely rare events.
A silencer would decrease the noise level around 30 decibels, it's far from "a few". That is around the same level as hearing protection devices. The noise would be considerablely more difficult to detect particularly in the case of the this shooter which was 1000 yards.


The silencers would also work against the shot spotters which are used in many cities. If they are still considering this legislation in light if the maqny shootings then we are moving in the wrong direction. The NRA has a powerful lobby and something like a 170 congressmen signed onto this.


The NRA's concern is hearing loss, that's a sick joke.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:01 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,496,023 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1944 View Post
I am not anti-gun but could someone explain the need for silencer legislation to me

Here is what the sponsor said

Duncan argues that silencers are used by hunters and target shooters to limit potential hearing loss from gunfire. Duncan introduced a stand-alone silencer bill, dubbed the “Hearing Protection Act," in January. That legislation currently has 160 co-sponsors, including several

Could a silencer be used on the weapons used in the LV massacre. If so how many more victims would there have been
None. There may have been less.

I'll give a quick run down on how a suppressor works.

Suppressors act as a muffler. They trap the gasses spent behind the projectile to bring the decibel rating down to a hearing safe level.
The quieter the level and more efficient the suppressor is... the hotter and dirtier a semi or fully automatic weapon will run.

A standard run of the mill carbine AR gas system, which is direct impingement system, utilizes the front sight base as a gas block to route some of the gases from combustion through a gas tube which goes back to the upper receiver to drive the bolt carrier group rearward to eject the spent cartridge and the buffer and spring push the bolt carrier forward grabbing the next cartridge in the magazine.

What happens when you throw a can on an AR? You increase the back pressure, increases the gases and carbon fouling back to the bolt. The faster you shoot the quicker things get dirty. Inducing failure to cycle.

What a suppressor does not do. Is eliminate the sonic boom, the crack of the projectile down range.

In a 16 inch upper. A2 front sight post with a run of the mill 223/5.56 suppressor that thing still goes Boom. Just not deafening boom.

When you run the gun at a faster rate. Halfway through the 4th magazine the gun failed to function. The first failure was a short stroke. The bolt didn't get enough gas from a build up of carbon residue to strip a round out of the magazine. It didn't cycle back fully.
Manually cycle the next round. It managed to cycle. Stripping the next round just fine. Following shot stove pipe. The bolt didn't travel fully rearward and the buffer and spring slammed the bolt carrier home on the spent case. Gun jammed.

I needed a can of brake clean to clean out the gas tube and gas block/front sight post. The carbon fouling was so heavy on the bolt carrier and in the upper receiver it needed to be cleaned. In between the upper an lower receivers was heavy amount of carbon fouling.

In this case. The shooter would have taken himself out with a self induced failure with a suppressor. Especially an effective one that would make the muzzle report quieter. Less rounds down range.

The same thing happens with AK long piston system. The gas block fouls with carbon and the firearm fails to cycle.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:02 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,496,023 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
A silencer would decrease the noise level around 30 decibels, it's far from "a few". That is around the same level as hearing protection devices. The noise would be considerablely more difficult to detect particularly in the case of the this shooter which was 1000 yards.


The silencers would also work against the shot spotters which are used in many cities. If they are still considering this legislation in light if the maqny shootings then we are moving in the wrong direction. The NRA has a powerful lobby and something like a 170 congressmen signed onto this.


The NRA's concern is hearing loss, that's a sick joke.
Shot spotter is a sick joke. Slap 2 bricks together in an alley way and you can set it off. Plus it cost tax payers 90k per year and only works if police are near by...
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,264 posts, read 26,192,233 times
Reputation: 15637
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Protect the hearing and protect the environment.

Suppressors are widely available in developed countries in Europe and many require suppressors to fire in shooting ranges.
Yes like fighting the ban on lead ammunition, protecting the environment sure that's their concern. If they had their way the Condors would be extinct.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:04 AM
 
8,059 posts, read 3,943,773 times
Reputation: 5356
Food for thought:

An unsuppressed AR-15 - 165 decibels.
A suppressed AR-15 - 132 decibels.
A thunderclap - 120 decibels.
A Boeing 707 at one nautical mile - 106 decibels.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:04 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,561,042 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
A silencer would decrease the noise level around 30 decibels, it's far from "a few". That is around the same level as hearing protection devices. The noise would be considerablely more difficult to detect particularly in the case of the this shooter which was 1000 yards.


The silencers would also work against the shot spotters which are used in many cities. If they are still considering this legislation in light if the maqny shootings then we are moving in the wrong direction. The NRA has a powerful lobby and something like a 170 congressmen signed onto this.


The NRA's concern is hearing loss, that's a sick joke.
Factually wrong on the highlighted.

Any gunfire or any sound is difficult to detect at 1000 yard or even at 100 yard to untrained people like us.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,264 posts, read 26,192,233 times
Reputation: 15637
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
Shot spotter is a sick joke. Slap 2 bricks together in an alley way and you can set it off. Plus it cost tax payers 90k per year and only works if police are near by...
Sure there are things that can give a false positive but it works, not perfectly but it works. Why can't people just wear hearing protection as they do in many industries.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:06 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,561,042 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Yes like fighting the ban on lead ammunition, protecting the environment sure that's their concern. If they had their way the Condors would be extinct.
Explain to me why NRA even pushes for suppressor then if it's not for hearing or environment?

What's their motive?
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,264 posts, read 26,192,233 times
Reputation: 15637
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Factually wrong on the highlighted.

Any gunfire or any sound is difficult to detect at 1000 yard or even at 100 yard to untrained people like us.
Factually correct, attenuating something 30 decibels is a dramatic reduction. Evidently those people at thousand yards knew where the shots were coming from, add in a silencer and that is a considerable attenuation of sound.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:09 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,561,042 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Sure there are things that can give a false positive but it works, not perfectly but it works. Why can't people just wear hearing protection as they do in many industries.
Hearing loss can be permanent.

1. New shooters often don't know how to ear the hearing protection properly.
2. Sometimes you forget.
3. A neighboring shooter may not know you haven't put on your hearing protection.
4. Hunting
5. Hearing protection may fall out when you are running.
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