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I have to agree with THIS statement. We are so free with our guns, especially when we're in another country--if you know what I mean. Americans are seen as "cowboys", quick to draw and fire upon another person.
It's funny, kill one person, and you're a murderer. Kill countless people, while in uniform, you're considered a hero.
Thats irrelevant. A tragedy & wrong but it has nothing to do with civilian gun ownership.
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker About short memories, we the Dutch have not forgotten how you Americans sold us the war of Iraq (by claiming that Iraq had WMDs). In one of the American press conferences during the invasion of Iraq the English, Australian, Danish and Dutch military commanders were invited to join. All the non-American military commanders agreed because they automatically assumed that they were given time to give a statement or answer questions. Obviously this was not the case; they were only used as window dressing to give the American public the impression that 'the Coalition of the willing' was a broad coalition. I guess America only cares about the picture and not the words. Although 1 picture does indeed tell more than a 1000 words, pictures are also more easily used for propaganda.
Anywayz, the Dutch commander had no business being in a press conference about the invasion of Iraq because the Dutch army was not send to Iraq to be part of an invading force. The English commander even vowed that they would never be part of such an American press conference again and to this day the English have kept their word. In short: we Europeans remember how the American government only used us for their national politics.
We went along with America because this is what allies do, but having experienced how America treats its allies this will not be so automatic anymore.
Another thing we Dutch have not forgotten is that the American government has lied to us about using our airfields for transporting people to countries where it was legal to use torture as an interrogation technique. The American government knew that the Dutch government was against torture and wanted no involvement in it, thus the American government lied to us. Nowadays it is a fact that we do not automatically believe the words of the American government anymore.
We shouldn't have had to say anything. The fact we needed to enforce things that the original Coalition set down as conditions for the ceasefire without you is pretty telling as far as your unwillingness to stand up & be counted. For 12 years Saddam laughed in the worlds face.
I dont think we shoulda mentioned WMD or anything else, violation of the terms of peace were enough.
The memory I'm talking about is your country sailing around the world & TAKING land from others. Had you not been such tyranical empire builders the USA might not be here.
But again, thats so far off topic its silly. The fact is guns are a right here. If you want to cry about our forien policy go ahead, I agree, its way wrong, but irrelevant to the discusion at hand.
The discusion as intended relates to the civilian population inside our borders.
We shouldn't have had to say anything. The fact we needed to enforce things that the original Coalition set down as conditions for the ceasefire without you is pretty telling as far as your unwillingness to stand up & be counted.
So Americans always play the-never-blame-yourself-instead-blame-the-others game?
In the beginning the Coalition of the willing had a large support in the UN, but once people discovered that the Coalition of the willing was just an American political smoke screen to hide the true reasons to invade Iraq, the broad coalition crumbled to just the English, Australians and the Danish. Even your Secretary of State Colin Powell admitted that the intelligence he got (the reason to invade Iraq) was completely false*.
Quote:
*On September 13, 2004, Powell testified before the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee,[14] acknowledging that the sources who provided much of the information in his February 2003 UN presentation were "wrong" and that it was "unlikely" that any stockpiles of WMDs would be found".
But again, thats so far off topic its silly. The fact is guns are a right here. If you want to cry about our forien policy go ahead, I agree, its way wrong, but irrelevant to the discusion at hand.
The discusion as intended relates to the civilian population inside our borders.
No it is not.
People who lie to themselves will eventually also lie to others, so when we discover that American politicians lie to themselves (= delude themselves) in national politics, we know that this will also happen in international politics.
So this is why we are interested in America's national gun policy.
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker So Americans always play the-never-blame-yourself-instead-blame-the-others game?
In the beginning the Coalition of the willing had a large support in the UN, but once people discovered that the Coalition of the willing was just an American political smoke screen to hide the true reasons to invade Iraq, the broad coalition crumbled to just the English, Australians and the Danish.
Even your Secretary of State Colin Powell admitted that the intelligence he got (the reason to invade Iraq) was completely false*.
No it is not.
People who lie to themselves will eventually also lie to others, so when we discover that American politicians lie to themselves (= delude themselves) in national politics, we know that this will also happen in international politics.
So this is why we are interested in America's national gun policy.
What does the above have to do with the topic of the thead? Let me answer for you:
I'm closing this thread, it is too difficult a discussion for folks to stay on topic and not make personal comments
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About short memories, we the Dutch have not forgotten how you Americans sold us the war of Iraq (by claiming that Iraq had WMDs). In one of the American press conferences during the invasion of Iraq the English, Australian, Danish and Dutch military commanders were invited to join. All the non-American military commanders agreed because they automatically assumed that they were given time to give a statement or answer questions. Obviously this was not the case; they were only used as window dressing to give the American public the impression that 'the Coalition of the willing' was a broad coalition. I guess America only cares about the picture and not the words. Although 1 picture does indeed tell more than a 1000 words, pictures are also more easily used for propaganda.
In short: we Europeans remember how the American government only used us for their national politics.
Nowadays it is a fact that we do not automatically believe the words of the American government anymore.
