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Old 10-06-2017, 12:19 PM
 
52,431 posts, read 26,618,587 times
Reputation: 21097

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
You tell me why Columbus is more worthy of honor than MLK.

Keep in mind, you're the one who made this value statement.

If most Americans want to honor both of them, they can.

I only honor one of them, and I can do that.




Doesn't change the simple fact that we can honor whichever historical figures we choose, whichever lens we use. And it is necessarily a choice that we are always free to make.
No argument at all. And if one group has erected a statue to honor someone, then who are you to tell them to take it down?

Again it's your logic.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:19 PM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,773,460 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18 View Post
The paradox that "they wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Columbus"?

As I have shown, that "paradox" literally exists for pretty much every single person/event that lead to the colonization of the Americans, and eventual formation of the USA. Why do all of these events or people not have holidays, too?


It doesn't really matter what their reasons are for wanting the holiday name changed - and your "paradox" really doesn't invalidate anything, either.
No you have not shown anything at all. All you are doing is throwing out a few irrelevant semantics.

There is a pronounced absurdity in decrying that which brought you about.

No Columbus = No Hockeymac18


I told you that you would not get around that.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:21 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,120 posts, read 19,703,590 times
Reputation: 25617
What's next for the snowflakes?

Get rid of President's Day because George Washington klled people.

Get rid of Fourth of July because colonists killed loyalist.

Get rid of Memorial Day and Veterans Day because some soldiers might have killed innocent people.

Get rid of Thanksgiving because the settlers took from the natives.

Get rid of Christmas because Santa enslaves little people.

Get rid of New Years Day because it is an imposition of the Gregorian Calendar on native American concept of time.

Get rid of Halloween because it insults people who practice witchcraft and sorcery.

Anything else? I'm sure the snowflakes will let us know.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:22 PM
 
10,920 posts, read 6,908,243 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
No you have not shown anything at all. All you are doing is throwing out a few irrelevant semantics.

There is a pronounced absurdity in decrying that which brought you about.

No Columbus = No Hockeymac18


I told you that you would not get around that.
And no Ferdinand and Isabella, no Columbus journey...no Moth.

I can pick any event in history and make the exact same claim of a "paradox".

The fact that you aren't getting this insanely easy example means that we have reached our logical end of this conversation.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:23 PM
 
10,920 posts, read 6,908,243 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax View Post
"Now everyone bow your heads for a moment in respect for Oog the caveman, without whom America would never have existed. It was on this day in the year 67,000 BC that Oog's wife Ugga gave birth to the great great great great great great great(x200).... great great great grandfather of George Washington. Happy Oog day everyone! Remember to leave your buck skin loin cloths near the fire pit, so Oog can fill them with the finest rocks!"
No Oog, no zzzSnorlax


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Old 10-06-2017, 12:24 PM
 
7,447 posts, read 2,832,289 times
Reputation: 4922
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18 View Post
And no Ferdinand and Isabella, no Columbus journey...no Moth.

I can pick any event in history and make the exact same claim of a "paradox".

The fact that you aren't getting this insanely easy example means that we have reached our logical end of this conversation.
Besides that, the concept that renaming a holiday that was named after a person to be named after someone or something else actually erases that person from history is completely bizarre. I guess all the founding fathers who DON'T have their own holidays never existed. OMG it's a paradox, someone tell America that it doesn't actually exist!
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,925,642 times
Reputation: 4942
How about we make a compromise. Conservatives want a holiday named after Columbus and Liberals don't want a holiday that honors a man who committed genocide. So we will have Columbus day to be a day of remembrance similar to Pearl Harbor day or 9/11. Everyone will contemplate about the horrors Christopher committed and how it affected the indigenous peoples of the Americas but also contemplate about all the good things that also occurred afterwards and to remind ourselves that the world doesn't operate in a black and white world, but one where things are very muddy and hard to decipher.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:45 PM
 
18,323 posts, read 10,658,251 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtrucks View Post
Welcome back, have a nice vacation?
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:46 PM
 
52,431 posts, read 26,618,587 times
Reputation: 21097
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
How about we make a compromise. Conservatives want a holiday named after Columbus and Liberals don't want a holiday that honors a man who committed genocide. So we will have Columbus day to be a day of remembrance similar to Pearl Harbor day or 9/11. Everyone will contemplate about the horrors Christopher committed and how it affected the indigenous peoples of the Americas but also contemplate about all the good things that also occurred afterwards and to remind ourselves that the world doesn't operate in a black and white world, but one where things are very muddy and hard to decipher.
Meanwhile these same people have no problem living, working, etc etc on the very land taken from those murdered native Americans.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:47 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,301,605 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtrucks View Post
I guess they don't know history. The so-called "native Americans" committed atrocities that were very brutal and bloody.
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