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I think exploiting people labor for profit is evil. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
Matthew 19:24
Raising the minimum wage does not effect the economy over night. It takes a while to see its negative effect on the economy. So take the time to read this post and maybe you will have a better understanding of how it works.
So, anyone who creates a job for another person is exploiting them? They are getting paid what the market dictates is a fair wage. If they don't get paid enough, and the person has any marketable skill, including experience flipping burgers, the employee can go to another employer who is willing to pay more for that experience. That is a lot easier to to, when there are more jobs than there are people to fill them. If you force employers to pay more salary than the economics of the business can handle, there will be fewer jobs overall, because they cannot make a profit with more employees than the market dictates.
Profit is evil? Why would anyone start a business of any kind with the intent of not making a profit? The desire for making a profit is the primary reason people start businesses. It is what drives the employment of people in a capitalistic society. Do you think the USA became what it is today, without capitalism?
When a business has more profit than what is required to stay in business, that money does not immediately get put into hiring more people. The owner of the business first has to see that additional profit will continue over time, and analyze if that profit will continue or grow larger if he expands the business(hiring more employees). That is what trickle down means. It does not happen overnight. But if you don't allow it to happen, then the economy does not grow at all.
If it were possible for everyone to make enough money in whatever job they did, even conservatives would be on board. Most conservatives, though, are conservatives because they UNDERSTAND that it won't work. As soon as you make starter jobs pay the same as someone who graduated from a college or university, the people who are thinking about getting a higher education will start wondering if it is worth the effort. Why bother when you can skip the four years and start making a good living? After years of liberals pushing for everyone to get a higher education to be able to make it, you want everyone to be on a level playing field and have it all without the effort. Right now we have over educated burger flippers because there aren't enough jobs for history majors and social scientists. I guess you want to take education out of the picture and just have more uneducated burger flippers.
Eventually there will be less of a need for professors. Then, there will be fewer qualified individuals to fill the jobs that require the education and then the employers will have to pay even more to hire them. All the while, whatever product that the business offers will cost even more. That's called inflation. Inflation happens normally based on the market conditions. However with an increase in minimum wage, eventually the inflation grows faster, by the means I just outlined. Before you know it, all you have accomplished if to increase everyone's wages by a certain percentage, but at the same time you have increased everyone's (average) cost of living by the same percentage. Now you have the people at the bottom with the same problem as before, and the economy has grown a lot slower than it could have with fewer jobs to show for it.
Last edited by Cruzincat; 10-10-2017 at 07:23 AM..
When you raise the bottom line, everything else falls into place in relation to it. Don't worry about poor people making a living wage. Don't obsess about liberal intentions. Best spend your energy worrying about what Trump and his base want to take away from the middle class and give to the rich.
The government should not be "giving" you anything that can be taken away. If you don't pay for it, it's not yours.
Typical conservative mentality why have wages at all when you can just have slaves oh wait a minute...
Wages are a function of supply and demand. There's simply no getting around that basic fact of the economic universe.
In every market, for every job, there exists some amount of demand for that job to be done and also a supply of willing workers capable of doing that job properly. The wage for that job will be set accordingly.
Pictures of the late 19th century don't change this fact. And anyone who grew up on a farm or in a family that owns a restaurant understands that child labor happens all the time even now, they just don't take pictures of it anymore. I did paid labor at age 10, it was just called "mowing lawns and raking leaves" back then. And I negotiated my wage according to my supply and the homeowner's demand.
The only slavery in America is the quasi slavery of taxpayers supporting the direct transfer welfare state. Beyond that, what job you do and for whatever compensation you receive (from which you pay your welfare state masters their tribute)...that is is completely up to you. You say "oh, not everyone can move to where jobs are, no fair!" But people back in the late 19th and early 20th century WALKED hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles to find work, doing whatever odd job here and there (like me hustling raking, mowing and snow removal back when I was 10-11) along the way. Where there is a will, there is a way. If you see no way, then you have no will.
Yet that is not the case for everyone I am thankful we have a floor at which the poor can not fall. Many people on this board think I want to punish the successful that is false. I simply want a floor for the poor so they can have some dignity. I don't believe in the calvinist nonsense that the poor deserve there fate absolute rubbish.
There is no inherent dignity in being poor.
There is dignity in being willing to do what's necessary to not be poor your entire life.
And asking the government to give you an arbitrary raise which you have done absolutely nothing to deserve, is certainly not dignified.
Wages are a function of supply and demand. There's simply no getting around that basic fact of the economic universe.
In every market, for every job, there exists some amount of demand for that job to be done and also a supply of willing workers capable of doing that job properly. The wage for that job will be set accordingly.
Pictures of the late 19th century don't change this fact. And anyone who grew up on a farm or in a family that owns a restaurant understands that child labor happens all the time even now, they just don't take pictures of it anymore. I did paid labor at age 10, it was just called "mowing lawns and raking leaves" back then. And I negotiated my wage according to my supply and the homeowner's demand.
The only slavery in America is the quasi slavery of taxpayers supporting the direct transfer welfare state. Beyond that, what job you do and for whatever compensation you receive (from which you pay your welfare state masters their tribute)...that is is completely up to you. You say "oh, not everyone can move to where jobs are, no fair!" But people back in the late 19th and early 20th century WALKED hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles to find work, doing whatever odd job here and there (like me hustling raking, mowing and snow removal back when I was 10-11) along the way. Where there is a will, there is a way. If you see no way, then you have no will.
^^^^This. ARTIFICIAL government mandated wages, or prices are destructive to an economy, and overall hurt the job market, and reduces the ability of a company to hire. Small businesses, and franchises are leaving places like Seattle, and San Francisco that mandate higher minimum wage.
Wages are a function of supply and demand. There's simply no getting around that basic fact of the economic universe.
In every market, for every job, there exists some amount of demand for that job to be done and also a supply of willing workers capable of doing that job properly. The wage for that job will be set accordingly.
Pictures of the late 19th century don't change this fact. And anyone who grew up on a farm or in a family that owns a restaurant understands that child labor happens all the time even now, they just don't take pictures of it anymore. I did paid labor at age 10, it was just called "mowing lawns and raking leaves" back then. And I negotiated my wage according to my supply and the homeowner's demand.
The only slavery in America is the quasi slavery of taxpayers supporting the direct transfer welfare state. Beyond that, what job you do and for whatever compensation you receive (from which you pay your welfare state masters their tribute)...that is is completely up to you. You say "oh, not everyone can move to where jobs are, no fair!" But people back in the late 19th and early 20th century WALKED hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles to find work, doing whatever odd job here and there (like me hustling raking, mowing and snow removal back when I was 10-11) along the way. Where there is a will, there is a way. If you see no way, then you have no will.
Yea yea I get it the poor are just stupid and lazy and we need to get rid of the minimum wage because the holy job creators will take care of us. In the real world what you advocate will lead to more exploitation and inequality. Not everyone is a big tough guy like you who can negotiate for themselves protections need to be in place for the vulnerable citizens. If you treat the poor like dirt your whole society will become unstable like in a third world country. Its interesting to note that the countries with the highest standards of living all have generous welfare programs. Treat the poor like human beings.
I think exploiting people labor for profit is evil. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
Matthew 19:24
Yea yea I get it the poor are just stupid and lazy and we need to get rid of the minimum wage because the holy job creators will take care of us. In the real world what you advocate will lead to more exploitation and inequality. Not everyone is a big tough guy like you who can negotiate for themselves protections need to be in place for the vulnerable citizens. If you treat the poor like dirt your whole society will become unstable like in a third world country. Its interesting to note that the countries with the highest standards of living all have generous welfare programs. Treat the poor like human beings.
so are you badmouthing the poor or unskilled, saying they don't have the ability or skill to negotiate what their skill is worth??
I taught my kids the art of negotiation at an early age....even backfired on me slightly, when they renegotiated their allowance for their chores
welfare breeds mediocracy
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