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Most bums are willful. There are cannots and there are willnots. The cannots need gov't help.
Know how to tell the difference between a cannot and a willnot? Willnots are resourceful. They sit in their beaters in the Walmart parking lot with a sign that says Need Gas, or they hold up signs that say, Anything Helps. Well, truth be told, some of those folks are Hardware Software engineers making 70k to 130k per year just messing with the sentimental types.
In the United States, we don't deprive citizens of their constitutionally guaranteed rights because we "suspect" them of doing something. We have to have proof of an at that warrants such a punishment.
That's simply not true, people are arrested every day without "proof" that they broke the law but merely because there is enough evidence to demonstrate that their is a reasonable likelihood that they committed a crime and that they should be required to stand trial on the charges.
This is no different than the process involved in putting a person on a no fly list. An evaluation was done and it was established that there is enough evidence that the person might pose a risk if they are allowed on a commercial plane, it's not a real stretch to say that if they are that dangerous enough to be banned from flying then allowing them to buy a gun might not be the best idea.
That's simply not true, people are arrested every day without "proof" that they broke the law but merely because there is enough evidence to demonstrate that their is a reasonable likelihood that they committed a crime and that they should be required to stand trial on the charges.
This is no different than the process involved in putting a person on a no fly list. An evaluation was done and it was established that there is enough evidence that the person might pose a risk if they are allowed on a commercial plane, it's not a real stretch to say that if they are that dangerous enough to be banned from flying then allowing them to buy a gun might not be the best idea.
Before someone can be arrested a crime needs to be or thought to have been committed, The person arrested has to to be read there miranda rights, and offered legal representation, in most cases offered bail, they are also entitled to a speedy trial.
Placing someone on a secret government list and stripping them of there rights without legal representation or a trial is far different than just being arrested.
If you wish to take away someones rights your going to have to convict them of a felony, sorry but there is no way around that.
The fact that you think there is is mind boggling.
I ask you once again, Should the gov. be allowed to snatch up anyone on the terror watch lists and hold them without trial or representation?
That's simply not true, people are arrested every day without "proof" that they broke the law but merely because there is enough evidence to demonstrate that their is a reasonable likelihood that they committed a crime and that they should be required to stand trial on the charges.
This is no different than the process involved in putting a person on a no fly list. An evaluation was done and it was established that there is enough evidence that the person might pose a risk if they are allowed on a commercial plane, it's not a real stretch to say that if they are that dangerous enough to be banned from flying then allowing them to buy a gun might not be the best idea.
LOL... So I guess you would be OK with the current administration evaluating that anyone that protest or marches against the Government is a risk and should be locked up without trial or legal representation?
You might be more comfortable living in some third world dictatorship.
I ask you once again, Should the gov. be allowed to snatch up anyone on the terror watch lists and hold them without trial or representation?
What a peculiar question since as far as I know no one in this thread ever suggested that should happen? But as far as holding people without trial, that's funny as hell since Trump is currently holding 26 Guantanamo detainees indefinitely without any intention to charge them or try them for a crime.
What a peculiar question since as far as I know no one in this thread ever suggested that should happen? But as far as holding people without trial, that's funny as hell since Trump is currently holding 26 Guantanamo detainees indefinitely without any intention to charge them or try them for a crime.
I pose that question so that you might understand that ALL OF OR RIGHTS ARE CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED, Not just the ones you like and dislike.
So once again, Would you want the Trump administration to have the ability to toss aside the 5th amendment and lock up American citizens with out due process?
Ahh the Guantanamo strawman argument, I guess i'll continue to educate you, Obviously the American school system failed you, Foreign combatants captured on a foreign battle field are not subject to our constitution, they may be subject to the Geneva Convention. And seeing that they were captured out of uniform they are technically spy's/and or terrorist and could be legally executed or imprisoned for life.
I pose that question so that you might understand that ALL OF OR RIGHTS ARE CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED, Not just the ones you like and dislike.
So once again, Would you want the Trump administration to have the ability to toss aside the 5th amendment and lock up American citizens with out due process?
Ahh the Guantanamo strawman argument, I guess i'll continue to educate you, Obviously the American school system failed you, Foreign combatants captured on a foreign battle field are not subject to our constitution, they may be subject to the Geneva Convention. And seeing that they were captured out of uniform they are technically spy's/and or terrorist and could be legally executed or imprisoned for life.
I pose that question so that you might understand that ALL OF OR RIGHTS ARE CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED, Not just the ones you like and dislike.
So once again, Would you want the Trump administration to have the ability to toss aside the 5th amendment and lock up American citizens with out due process?
Ahh the Guantanamo strawman argument, I guess i'll continue to educate you, Obviously the American school system failed you, Foreign combatants captured on a foreign battle field are not subject to our constitution, they may be subject to the Geneva Convention. And seeing that they were captured out of uniform they are technically spy's/and or terrorist and could be legally executed or imprisoned for life.
RR
This is what you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrat View Post
I ask you once again, Should the gov. be allowed to snatch up anyone on the terror watch lists and hold them without trial or representation?
To which I said we already do that and offered the example of Guantanamo bay. Perhaps you aren't aware of it but out of over 80,000 people on the no-fly list fewer than 1000 are US Citizens.
I think you confused yourself, but this is way off topic so I'm done with it.
Simple. Homelessness. Started under Reagan yet I have never seen a conservative own up to it.
actually it was liberals who campaigned for the closing down of old style mental institutions , its true republicans liked the idea of saving money but in both the usa and europe the dominant liberal attitude to institutions has done a huge amount of harm , i have a close relative who is now back in care but who was on the road to either being homeless or in prison as his poor family could not handle his behaviour , some people are simply not right and its cruel to leave them to fend for themselves , freedom is a curse to them , they need to be in secure controlled enviroments , this isnt to say that the majority of people who suffer from the likes of depression need to be locked up but a certain percentage of people are too ill to be free
its unfair on everyone , especially them and their families
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