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So your contention is that trying legal route was a lost cause. Well, so was the war, as luck would have it.
Several differences between the Revolutionary War and the Civil War.
First, the Revolutionary War was against a colonial power not each other.
Second, the Revolutionary War wasn't fought in order to maintain slavery. Slight difference there.
But the big difference is that the rebels won the Revolutionary War. Sadly, the rebels lost the Civil War. Or at least they did according to the history books my schools used. Obviously, other schools taught a different version of history.
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First, the Revolutionary War was against a colonial power not each other.
The U.S. was under Great Britian's rule and laws, before the Revolution.
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Second, the Revolutionary War wasn't fought in order to maintain slavery ...
Two separate versions of history; I have a theory. If this taught in a fashion to where 'all' was understood and thereby establishing unity among the (armed) citizens of the U.S. they fear another civil war. Much easier to govern people who have nothing better to do than to bicker among themselves like hens in a hen house.
Christ brought people together unity and He was hung.
MLK brought people together unity and he was shot ... need I say more?
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 10-19-2017 at 11:24 PM..
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and I was reading those historical documents and there was something about them having a picnic at one of the battle sites ... while the shooting was going on.
btw: not all states in the Confederacy were southern ones ...
The high school I attended taught about the attack on Fort Sumter as the start of the Civil War.
Ah, I knew it. The typical books out there are 1-sided.
Research the real happenings at Fort Sumter. As stated the South wanted the North out of their territory, or their newly formed Confederate States if you prefer. They sent very polite messages to inform the North that they must leave. After all, who out there let's an "enemy" have a fort no less, in their territory. The letters went back and forth a good many times. The South patiently waited, but the North refused and would not comply. The South finally fired to get their point across and no one died from enemy fire to boot. They even gave the warning to when the cannons were to fire as well. The bottom line is that the South did everything reasonable to accomplish their goal, peacefully, if only the North complied. They ended up leaving anyway. I can provide all the links necessary, if you cannot find them in your own search.
and I was reading those historical documents and there was something about them having a picnic at one of the battle sites ... while the shooting was going on.
Not real sure what you are referring to, but just to make things clear, the "picnic at one of the battle sites" was at the First Battle of Bull Run and it was Northern citizens who came to Virginia to watch the "show". They were told that it was going to be a quick battle to "teach" those Southerners. Well it was the other way around. Once the picnic goers realized what was happening, they all got up and started running. The Confederates won the battle.
This was the "real" start of the war by the way as it was clear that the North had no intentions of stopping and sure enough, eventually attacked again.
Ah, I knew it. The typical books out there are 1-sided.
Research the real happenings at Fort Sumter. As stated the South wanted the North out of their territory, or their newly formed Confederate States if you prefer. They sent very polite messages to inform the North that they must leave. After all, who out there let's an "enemy" have a fort no less, in their territory. The letters went back and forth a good many times. The South patiently waited, but the North refused and would not comply. The South finally fired to get their point across and no one died from enemy fire to boot. They even gave the warning to when the cannons were to fire as well. The bottom line is that the South did everything reasonable to accomplish their goal, peacefully, if only the North complied. They ended up leaving anyway. I can provide all the links necessary, if you cannot find them in your own search.
Could you please provide link(s) to a source about how the southern states held a referendum, worked to pass an Amendment to the Constitution, went through the court system, ...?
Also, not to make too fine a point of it, but when the south fired on Fort Sumter it made no difference they were packed picnics.
Nobody's head is spinning and nobody is spitting out green pea soup. Get a grip.
Regardless of whether the Confederate flag of today is actually the flag of Robert E. Lee’s Northern Virginia army or the CSA, it is still the flag of traitors.
It is one thing for colonies to rebel against colonial rulers, ie. other nations.
Quite another for states to levy war against the nation they are part of. That is treason.
If the south wanted to form their own country, they should have pursued legal means. Hold a referendum. Pass an Amendment. It may have taken a few years. But the south would have ended up with their own nation.
If the south still wants to throw off tyranny and pursue their own nation, fine by me. Get an Amendment passed.
I'd vote for it.
My man, I don't think that a group of people who didn't (and probably largely don't) want to be a part of your nation are going to be offended by your "traitor" tack. That's somewhat like a plumber calling someone who tries to play blackjack for a living a "degenerate" as a pejorative.
The whole point is to gamble and become rich, and the whole point was to fight and secede. They both have desired outcomes whose entire point transcends the relevant appellations because the people who levy the accusations are entirely meaningless to them, and those are the people who the accused are trying to get away from.
Yes, the blackjack player is trying to get rich by gambling. He's trying to transcend the impoverished status of most the the people who would condemn him, and get away from their lot in life, their class, and them by doing something that offends their morality. The priority is to get away, not to stay in their good graces.
Yes, the confederacy was trying to secede, or get away, by fighting the North. The priority was not (and is not) to stay in your good graces. They hate you, and wish to get away at any cost. So why would they care that you think they are traitors? Again, the point is to get away. There is no true relationship to preserve, other than what can be enforced at the point of a gun. Someone calling them a name in hindsight, even after a loss, is pretty irrelevant. "Traitor" implies some kind of prior obligation to you. Because there is no cultural bond, they do not see that obligation as valid.
If the south had a referendum, got an Amendment passed, petitioned the courts, whatever, and became their own nation, they could fly any flag they wanted to do. It would be their decision.
But as long as we are all the United States of America, we fly the Stars and Stripes.
Actually, as long as we're in the United States of America, we recognize the founding principles of the United States of America. One of those foundations is free speech, which includes the right to fly any flag that they wish.
Reducing free speech is the quick road to the functional end of this nation as it was founded.
What is Southern Heritage and pride about what exactly? What about the South is worth bursting over with pride about?
Southern heritage? LMAO...you guys kill me with that. There’s absolutely NOTHING special about the South that can’t be found anywhere else in this country. Nothing.
You guys hang your hats on this whole “Southern Heritage” thing because the truth is, it’s just overcompensating for the fact that your big cause (building a nation based solely on the notion of white supremacy) was such a colossal failure.
Your overstating the meaning of the North's victory by an infinitely large factor.
Could you please provide link(s) to a source about how the southern states held a referendum, worked to pass an Amendment to the Constitution, went through the court system, ...?
Sorry, it didn't work the way that you wished it worked. But while we are at it, show me where in the US Constitution in 1860 where it clearly states that a territory cannot secede to form their own "states".
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Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
Also, not to make too fine a point of it, but when the south fired on Fort Sumter it made no difference they were packed picnics.
That statement does not make any sense to me, but did you read my reply to Ellis Bell?
Pfffft...I’m not a social justice warrior at all. I don’t know what the hell You’re talking about.
I didn’t say that everyone from the South is racist, but yeah, it does suck anyway.
That said, explain Southern Heritage and Southern pride. Pride in what? What’s so distinct in the South that can’t be found elsewhere?
Outside globalist racial nationalists, such as yourself (yes, yes, the plight of black people), tend to wish to minimize and attack the ethnic identity of implicit or explicit nationalist groups (in Asia and Europe) because they see those groups as either a threat to their group, a threat to globalism (read: brown integration with nationalist Euro and Asian nations), or both.
No one should, or is required to, answer your demeaning and irrelevant question. You aren't them, and so you don't matter. Period. And guess what? They still have a right to self determination. Your assessment is simply meaningless to any conversation. As long as they feel that they have a nation, then they do. Your rhetorical attack and implied subsequent validation is absolutely meaningless.
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