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People have different ideas of what the words 'sexual assault' mean. If you mean rape, say it If you mean fondling sexual body parts, say it. If you mean words, say it.
No, my opinion is factually and logically consistent.
It's absolutely horrible for any person in a position of power to even propose such an act but the fact remains you are not being physically violated and you have the right and will to walk away.
I don't like it and it is an extreme burden on a recipient who does not consent.
This opens up into a broader discussion of rights/privileges and the ability to buy/sell your labor minus regulation.
I'm trying to leave my anti-government craziness at the door on this one though so I'll stop there.
Yes you have the right to walk away.
You make it sound like it's easy to just walk away from a job.
Some people don't have that kind of luxury.
I left home at 18 and had to work two jobs to make my rent. One job in an office in the daytime and one working as a waitress in the evening.
I was sexually harassed in my daytime job by my boss - (who owned the company) and yes eventually I did leave. Try finding a third job when you are already working all hours. If I had just walked away I wouldn't have made my rent and nobody to support me otherwise.
And I was just a single person at the time who only had myself to worry about. People who have families / kids can't necessarily walk away that easily.
You make it all sound like it's just black and white.
Clearly you haven't been a victim of verbal sexual harassment. It's constant and demeaning and bullying but it's a case of weighing up whether for survival you deal with it, or you take your chances and leave and it's not easy to do either. It's not so cut and dried as you make out.
25 years ago my sisters would have known the guy was crazy. In the case they didn't know they wouldn't have ran over to me like that anyway.
But again, we're living in different times where everything takes us to DEFCON 1.
I agree. Physical assault, is obviously despicable, and no punishment is too harsh for that IMHO. I say this as a male assault victim- I was age 9, Mrs LeaveWI also experienced an assault at age 12, so I am totally on board with raising awareness, and harsher punishments, as well as a change in attitude in regards to victim blaming/shaming.
The catcalls/cheesy pick-up line jerks are also unacceptable, and uncalled for; but I'm not as focused on those, because in 2017 with all the strong, empowered, superior women out there, I'm figuring "Grrrl Power" will take care of , and eventually end , the verbal harrassment. Mrs LW tells me she just uses a clever put-down or one-liner to put the jerks in their place.
A boss or a supervisor asking for sexual favors on the job for any reason is sexual harassment and wrong period.
If they aren’t the owner of the means of production they are probably breaking the terms of their own employment by asking for sexual favors. Also, it’s up to employees to make sure they are on the same page with their employers as far as behavior in the workplace goes.
If someone wants to run a company where sexual favors are in play as long as both parties know this and CONSENT to terms...it’s their business and business model...not mine.
This is why I have no problem with prostitution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18
People are fooled by fake news, and share it with others. This is how it spreads.
But I know you know this.
It’s up to all of us to be vigilant in what we consume...as far as news goes. To suggest that ads mislead or shaped behavior as if everyone is a mindless zombie is pretty far-fetched. Then again, we are talking about voters and if you’re voting...you’re part of the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne
Yes you have the right to walk away.
You make it sound like it's easy to just walk away from a job.
Some people don't have that kind of luxury.
I left home at 18 and had to work two jobs to make my rent. One job in an office in the daytime and one working as a waitress in the evening.
I was sexually harassed in my daytime job by my boss - (who owned the company) and yes eventually I did leave. Try finding a third job when you are already working all hours. If I had just walked away I wouldn't have made my rent and nobody to support me otherwise.
And I was just a single person at the time who only had myself to worry about. People who have families / kids can't necessarily walk away that easily.
You make it all sound like it's just black and white.
Clearly you haven't been a victim of verbal sexual harassment. It's constant and demeaning and bullying but it's a case of weighing up whether for survival you deal with it, or you take your chances and leave and it's not easy to do either. It's not so cut and dried as you make out.
It is that cut and dry. Life is hard. Prepare accordingly. I’m for a world where owners of the fruits of their labor can buy and sell those fruits as they see fit...free from any 3rd party regulation. That goes for employers and employees. This is otherwise known as freedom.
Your boss should have had the right (free from the government) to hire you and make it clear via contract that you were expected to have sex with him. If that wasn’t your cup of tea, you could have moved on.
The way we try to police it now only makes matters worse. Everyone is on eggshells and it’s all political behind the scenes. It’s why I got out of the public sector and eventually bought part of a business.
That’s what the issues is. You could have avoided a jerk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI
I agree. Physical assault, is obviously despicable, and no punishment is too harsh for that IMHO. I say this as a male assault victim- I was age 9, Mrs LeaveWI also experienced an assault at age 12, so I am totally on board with raising awareness, and harsher punishments, as well as a change in attitude in regards to victim blaming/shaming.
The catcalls/cheesy pick-up line jerks are also unacceptable, and uncalled for; but I'm not as focused on those, because in 2017 with all the strong, empowered, superior women out there, I'm figuring "Grrrl Power" will take care of , and eventually end , the verbal harrassment. Mrs LW tells me she just uses a clever put-down or one-liner to put the jerks in their place.
We have to be clear on what is violence and what is not violence. Speaking of which...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow
Are you kidding? You think that an employer making a promotion contingent on oral sex is somehow better than an unwanted touch?
Touching someone against their will is a violation of the non-aggression principle. You own your body. No one can touch you if you don’t want to be touched. If someone does try to make an initial touch that you do not consent to you must clearly state that and then consider your options away from the situation.
If the employer owns the business and it’s his business model to base promotions on sex and both parties know this and agree to it...what’s wrong with that?
Of course you are referencing the sex-for-promotion out of the blue not spelled out in a contract (because the government won’t allow us to sell our bodies for some odd reason). If that’s the case I suppose you can file a complaint with whatever. I still say this system only promotes eggshells and political back-stabbing. 3rd party involuntary regulation only puts the 2 parties in contact with each other on alert to “trick” the other party into giving them what they want for the least amount in return.
Might be an appropriate time to talk a little about a group I'm involved with. Guardians of the Children is an international organization of bikers working to combat child abuse, sexual, physical and mental.
Our main focus is on support for victims, separating them from further abuse (there must be a police report filed on an abuser and we must be requested by a parent or guardian to become involved) and to support kids that have to testify in the court system. One item I wasn't aware of until joining is that kids typically are alone in the courtroom (from a support standpoint-family typically is to testify and can not be in the courtroom when the child is testifying). We show up to let the child know they are not alone and to physically prevent any interaction between the criminal and the victim or their family. We'll also show up at the kids home if they are scared or if there is a need for a show of support to discourage an attacker.
There are other groups that help in other ways of course.
Wish there was more that we could do. The various news reports are depressing in terms of seeing how much more needs done.
It's a proposition. If the employee wants the promotion and CONSENTS to giving oral sex what is wrong with that?
Again, you folks don't understand what violence is and what violence is not.
Words are never violence. NEVER.
Any unwanted touching post a responsive no equates to non-consensual contact and is therefore violence.
You can't be serious. That is classic sexual harassment. If an employee gives in, that is not consent in any usual sense of the word. It is someone being threatened so that they will engage in an act of violation of themselves, in order to gain a promotion. The threat is that if you want the promotion you need to in effect "consent" to be orally raped.
A valid way to discuss a promotion is as a negotiation between the employer and employee, with a performance review etc. I shouldn't have to state that.
I don't believe some people realize how prevalent this sort of behavior is and has been over the decades. I'm glad it is coming to the forefront.
That's it, the idea that this has been overlooked, tolerated or unable to eliminate by this late stage, is unbelievable. Considering how some victimizing others have had lawyers to "make their cases go away", is appalling and just perpetuates the problem. With all that has erupted publicly in recent years, everything related to this issue should hopefully be taken seriously and addressed in order to create change.
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