Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 10-18-2017, 02:24 PM
 
17,290 posts, read 29,298,528 times
Reputation: 8690

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
While I agree with most of what you say there certainly was war before civilization. There has been war as long as there have been humans.
The genesis of war as we know it was probably more at the time humans began settling down, transitioning from a hunter-gatherer model to farming, cities and towns.

At the very earliest part of humanity's expansion, whenever there was stress in an area and shortage of resources, humans just moved up the road, further expanding out into the planet.


It's not that hunter gatherers were without war --- it's just that where there is and was abundant resources and land, there is no real reason for it.

 
Old 10-18-2017, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,653 posts, read 5,426,873 times
Reputation: 8791
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
While I agree with most of what you say there certainly was war before civilization. There has been war as long as there have been humans.
A better word would be fighting rather than war. I think fighting has its roots in the survival instinct, but then so does greed.
 
Old 10-18-2017, 02:56 PM
exm
 
3,700 posts, read 1,749,679 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Is it PC to say that that civilization is responsible for about 100 million deaths over the last century alone?

Is it PC to say that they’ve carried out the most brutal genocides of any civilization in recent history?

If you wanna talk civilization, talk about it all.

The Germans are easily the most technically advanced nation in Europe. Probably pretty close the most culturally advanced too, for what it’s worth.

They also tried to wipe two ethnic groups off the face of the Earth.

Mr Faber is an ethnic German. Funny how he left that out, but maybe it was too “PC.”
It's called survival of the fittest.

Do you think if an alien species would invade earth, and let's say they are way more advance than we are, they would have mercy with any one of us? They would slaughter us. The alternative is, as the more intelligent species, that they would rule us. But it's not PC to say there's a difference in actual IQ between the human race.
 
Old 10-18-2017, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,334 posts, read 10,351,495 times
Reputation: 36056
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
Under the influence of the Catholic Church, or, more correctly, stirred up by priests. The Hutu Power movement was founded by a priest and it was members of the clergy who set the Hutus against their neighbors.

The Catholic Church is not a native African institution. (And yes, I know the fault was not in Catholic doctrine but in the actions of people within the church. Still, one //pics3.city-data.com/images/cdfh.jpgwould have expected the Pope and bishops to have done something about the actions of said priests, especially considering how John Paul II elsewhere in the world was a great fighter for human rights. )



So you'd rather do business in Venezuela, Ukraine, Argentina, or Russia than in Botswana, Jamaica, or Cape Verde?

So the Rwandan genocide is the fault of the Catholic Church? The Hutus and the Tutsis would have lived together in peace and harmony if only those meddlesome priests hadn't stirred them up to act against their own desires?

Not saying that the Catholic Church is blameless, but that's a long way from saying that it was their fault.

As for the countries, I should have been clearer to specify non-Hispanic white. So that leaves out Venezuela and Argentina. Also notice that I said "most" countries. There are exceptions. Not every white country is worth doing business in, and not every black country is worth shunning. (But Jamaica? No, not doing business there.)
 
Old 10-18-2017, 03:19 PM
 
15,068 posts, read 6,111,588 times
Reputation: 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
This is why history taught from a Eurocentric perspective is dangerous.


You DO know that the Arabs enslaved 100s of millions of Africans over a period of hundreds of years, right? That their trade (in which Africans also willing participated -- see Mansa Musa for reference) went on for about 700 years before the first European stepped foot in sub-Saharan Africa?

You DO know that even when Europeans got involved in the African slave trade, that they simply saddled up to an already-existing and vibrant trade on the African continent? That they didn't go into the bush and kidnap people. They went to African and Arab-run slave posts.

You know the Arabs basically colonized and wiped out the indigenous cultures of north Africa, right? Hundreds of years before Europeans went to the Americas? You know that they colonized southern Europe, right? My own DNA results indicate my father's line came into Iberia from northern Africa several hundred years ago during that invasion?

You know the black African Bantu expansion in western Africa eradicated and pushed out the original inhabitants?



HISTORY people. Learn it.
Well WOW! Look who has read a book.

Already knew that. That changes nothing in my post.

Since Africans had been trading with the Arabs prior to European colonization, their interactions may have been far more civil and perhaps the Amerindians wouldn't have killed out as much. You have no idea how Africans would have interacted with Amerindians and others on a whole.

Slavery is almost as old as mankind...and? That doesn't mean the world may not have been better without European colonization. The same could be said about Arab colonization. So what?

European colonization is not limited to Africa. It occured in Asia and the Pacific Islands as well as the Americas.

As for your heritage, good for you. I have heritage from South America, to Africa, to Europe and across into Asia. *shrug*

You're right...the above is why history taught from a European perspective is dangerous. Too many cannot handle any conversation that doesn't make everything European seem wonderful. It's HISTORY. LEARN IT. GET OVER IT.

Last edited by ReineDeCoeur; 10-18-2017 at 03:34 PM..
 
Old 10-18-2017, 04:43 PM
 
17,290 posts, read 29,298,528 times
Reputation: 8690
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Well WOW! Look who has read a book.

Already knew that. That changes nothing in my post.
It makes your conclusions even more puzzling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur
Since Africans had been trading with the Arabs prior to European colonization, their interactions may have been far more civil and perhaps the Amerindians wouldn't have killed out as much. You have no idea how Africans would have interacted with Amerindians and others on a whole.
This makes no sense. Europeans also had been trading with Arabs for centuries. Spain had ALSO just gotten over 600 years of being colonized by the Arabs and north Africans at the time Christopher Columbus made his way to the Americas.

What about Africans or Arabs and the history of how both peoples enslaved, conquered and colonized gives you ANY support for the question that they would have been far more civil to the Amerindians? Especially if confronted with the same technology imbalance that helped European colonizers rapidly conquer the new world?

In fact, if you actually study the history of the European conquest of the Americas, 95% of north American Indians that died, died from disease... not due to atrocities of European killing. This is similar to how Arab traders brought the black death to Europe, killing 1/3 - 1/2 of Europe's inhabitants.

In Southern and Central America, the lesser tribes that had been subjugated by the larger empires (Aztec, for example) banded together with the Spaniards.

That's how just a couple hundred Europeans can defeat hundreds of thousands and bring down an empire.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur
Slavery is almost as old as mankind...and? That doesn't mean the world may not have been better without European colonization. The same could be said about Arab colonization. So what?

European colonization is not limited to Africa. It occured in Asia and the Pacific Islands as well as the Americas.
So? Again, what do you base your assumptions on that Arabs or Africans would have been better or gentler colonizers? Do you know nothing about what the Muslim conquest of India looked like? And in case you didn't notice, that conquest ALSO stretched as far as the Pacific and east Asia. Many Sikhs and Hindus will readily tell you about what they consider to be the world's largest holocaust. Unlike in the new world, where disease was the main killer in addition to war, Arab blood thirst and brutality was the DIRECT and PRIMARY cause of tends and tens of millions dead:

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/islamic...-world-history


Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur
You're right...the above is why history taught from a European perspective is dangerous. Too many cannot handle any conversation that doesn't make everything European seem wonderful. It's HISTORY. LEARN IT. GET OVER IT.

Awfully rich from someone who still shows that your entire knowledge of history is viewed from a European perspective. The only ones afraid to learn their actual histories are those who, for example, still complain about 50 years of European colonization in the Arabian peninsula.... while forgetting that the Ottomans spent 10X as long colonizing Europe, just before! Or, whining that the French marched across the Mediterranean to subjugate Morroco and Algeria.... after CENTURIES of repeated invasion, slave-taking of southern Europeans and piracy of European lands by northern Africans!
 
Old 10-18-2017, 06:02 PM
 
15,068 posts, read 6,111,588 times
Reputation: 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
It makes your conclusions even more puzzling.
There were no conclusions in my post. The word "maybe" is not conclusory. It means that there is a possibility.



Quote:
This makes no sense. Europeans also had been trading with Arabs for centuries. Spain had ALSO just gotten over 600 years of being colonized by the Arabs and north Africans at the time Christopher Columbus made his way to the Americas.
It makes plenty sense. This is not a competition. Europeans and Africans had traded with the Arabs. Big deal.

Quote:
What about Africans or Arabs and the history of how both peoples enslaved, conquered and colonized gives you ANY support for the question that they would have been far more civil to the Amerindians? Especially if confronted with the same technology imbalance that helped European colonizers rapidly conquer the new world?

In fact, if you actually study the history of the European conquest of the Americas, 95% of north American Indians that died, died from disease... not due to atrocities of European killing. This is similar to how Arab traders brought the black death to Europe, killing 1/3 - 1/2 of Europe's inhabitants.

In Southern and Central America, the lesser tribes that had been subjugated by the larger empires (Aztec, for example) banded together with the Spaniards.

That's how just a couple hundred Europeans can defeat hundreds of thousands and bring down an empire.
Can you read? My post said maybe. No one said that they would or wouldnt have been. You are the one losing your mind at the suggestion that things may have turned out differently.


Quote:
So? Again, what do you base your assumptions on that Arabs or Africans would have been better or gentler colonizers? Do you know nothing about what the Muslim conquest of India looked like? And in case you didn't notice, that conquest ALSO stretched as far as the Pacific and east Asia. Many Sikhs and Hindus will readily tell you about what they consider to be the world's largest holocaust. Unlike in the new world, where disease was the main killer in addition to war, Arab blood thirst and brutality was the DIRECT and PRIMARY cause of tends and tens of millions dead:

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/islamic...-world-history

Awfully rich from someone who still shows that your entire knowledge of history is viewed from a European perspective. The only ones afraid to learn their actual histories are those who, for example, still complain about 50 years of European colonization in the Arabian peninsula.... while forgetting that the Ottomans spent 10X as long colonizing Europe, just before! Or, whining that the French marched across the Mediterranean to subjugate Morroco and Algeria.... after CENTURIES of repeated invasion, slave-taking of southern Europeans and piracy of European lands by northern Africans!
Again, can you read? Do you have a proper grasp of the English language? Well aware of the above and it's amusing that you're trying to prove you know some things but it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

"Maybe" is not conclusory but means there is or was a possibility.

YOU made the ASSUMPTION, not me. Now you're throwing a literal tantrum for nothing.

Maybe things would have been different if Europeans had stayed in Europe. Maybe...

*shrug*
 
Old 10-18-2017, 07:07 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,014,465 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
You do realize, do you not, that genocide is not the exclusive province of white Europeans? Or are you not familiar with what the Hutus of Rwanda did to their Tutsi neighbors?

Given that the person doing the quoting is a financier (I believe), it seems reasonable to assess his comments through the lens of finance. Simply put, which countries are better to do business in? Which ones are wealthier? Which ones offer greater financial opportunities?

Personally, I agree with him. I would vastly rather live in, and do business in, and visit, most white-majority countries over most black-majority countries.

If that makes me a racist, then so be it.
I don’t care if you’re a racist. No skin off my back.

Rwanda? Yeah, of course I’m familiar with it. And? Frankly, even that genocide has European roots.

Again, if we’re gonna talk about how people behave in a “civilization,” let’s talk about all of it, and not just the parts that are favorable.

Talk about Rwanda? European Serbs and Croats decided to carve up Bosnia and commit yet another European genocide...all under the auspices of the Orthodox and Catholic Church.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
And the Germans lost. Because there was enough resistance to be mustered to stop Nazism's threat to western civilization as we (knew/know) it.

The greatest civilizations the world has seen typically had a warring component and expanded as far as they could. From Greece to Rome to the Persians to China and Arabia.

War and civilization are not always enemies. They kinda go hand and hand. Before civilization there was little reason to go to war.
Uhhh..no. That’s not why Germany lost.

Germany lost because they miscalculated and overextended themselves. Not because of Nazism’s threat to civilization. When the Jews aboard the St Louis tried to disembark all over the western world, they were rejected.

We sent them back to Germany to be slaughtered. Get real. No one cared about Nazism until they were facing it themselves.

So again, the civilized Europeans plunged this world into two brutal world wars where tens of millions were killed. And the worst atrocities were committed by the most civilized nation in Europe. Even the church gave tacit approval by staying silent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post
It's called survival of the fittest.

Do you think if an alien species would invade earth, and let's say they are way more advance than we are, they would have mercy with any one of us? They would slaughter us. The alternative is, as the more intelligent species, that they would rule us. But it's not PC to say there's a difference in actual IQ between the human race.
Jews weren’t alien to Germans or Ukrainians. Armenians weren’t alien to Turks. Jews weren’t alien to Cossacks. Ukrainians weren’t alien to Russians. Bosniaks weren’t alien to Croats or Serbs.

As to IQ, I have no issue with racial differences in IQ...for whatever that’s worth. I don’t think we’re all the same, and I’m quite happy about that.
 
Old 10-18-2017, 09:27 PM
 
3,304 posts, read 2,160,560 times
Reputation: 2390
The knee-jerk reaction by many is to just call Marc Faber a racist but who can actually refute what he said? Where is there one Black run country that is a prosperous and model civilization? Some are relatively successful but that's only in comparison to the worse run Black countries. When compared to western European standards there is no Black country that comes close. This is the reason that Blacks are literally dying to get into Europe where they can live in a western European country run by Whites.
 
Old 10-18-2017, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
29,813 posts, read 18,675,159 times
Reputation: 25802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supachai View Post
The knee-jerk reaction by many is to just call Marc Faber a racist but who can actually refute what he said? Where is there one Black run country that is a prosperous and model civilization? Some are relatively successful but that's only in comparison to the worse run Black countries. When compared to western European standards there is no Black country that comes close. This is the reason that Blacks are literally dying to get into Europe where they can live in a western European country run by Whites.
No way can anyone come close to refuting what he said....however, being correct in today's world on sociological and historical issues will get you persecuted.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top