Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
California Landowner: "I know that you pickers have been getting $2.00 per bushel picked, but I'm lowering the price I'll pay to $1.25 per bushel."
Farm workers: "But you promised us $2.00 per bushel when we traveled hundreds of miles to get here. $1.25 per bushel doesn't earn us enough money to enough food to keep from going hungry. And prices for the produce we pick have been going up - you don't need to lower our wages to keep competitive."
California Landowner: "See those people outside the gates? They haven't had anything to eat in a week. They're more than happy to pick at $1.25 a bushel. Now either get into the fields now and start working, or I'll have my hired security workers kick you off of my property. So, what's it gonna be?"
In the libertarian viewpoint, the Landowner is the one in the right.
Did he promise them $2.00 and change his mind after they agreed? The landowner would be wrong in that situation.
My point was basically this: If you're on an island by yourself, you can't just sit there and expect to get food, obviously. You need to go out and make it happen. Add more people to the equation, and someone still has to do the work if you want to be fed. People act as if they're entitled to a job, or food, or whatever because they NEED it...but no, that is false. The fact that you need food doesn't place an obligation on anyone else to give it to you.
That said, people can and do choose to out of good will, and I'd argue that they definitely should be doing so for people who are legitimately disabled and can't provide for themselves.
7 am: I slept peacefully in my bed all night thanks to the Big Evil Government police and criminal justice system, which discourages crime. I took my heartburn medication which is safe to take because of the Big Evil Government FDA.
7:30 am: the breakfast I ate was safe to eat because of Big Evil Government FDA and USDA regulations on food and agriculture.
8:00 am: I drive to work and arrived in one piece thanks to Big Evil Government automobile safety regulations. Big Evil Government made sure that the bridges I crossed underwent regular safety inspections and maintenance.
8:30 am: I arrive at work, where my boss is not allowed to abuse me thanks to Big Evil Government labor laws. The building is safe because of Big Evil Government building codes. The town surrounding the plant is livable because of Big Evil Government EPA regulations.
12:00 pm: I eat lunch at Joe's Dinner, and the food was safe to eat because of the Big Evil Government health department. The employees were paid enough to survive because of Big Evil Government minimum wage laws.
1:00 pm: Back to work, where my boss was forced to stop sexually harassing one of the female employees under his supervision because of Big Evil Government laws against sexual harassment.
5:00 pm: I drove home and stopped for gasoline, which was safe to put in my tank thanks to Big Evil Government regulations. The Big Evil Government bureau of weights and measures made sure that I really was getting a gallon of gas when the pump said I got a gallon of gas.
5:30 pm: I arrived home safely because of Big Evil Government traffic laws that discourage reckless driving and drunk driving.
6:00 pm: My steak is safe to eat because it was inspected by the Big Evil Government USDA. My gas grill doesn't explode because of Big Evil Government consumer protection laws.
7:00 pm: I get on the internet, which was made possible by Big Evil Government research during the Cold War. I turn on my satellite TV service which was made possible by the Big Evil Government space program. My lights work because of the nuclear power plant in town, which was made possible by Big Evil Government research on nuclear fission. The nuclear plant is safe because of regular Big Evil Government NRC and EPA inspections.
10:00 pm: I turn up my heat because I know that tonight will be cold, thanks to the Big Evil Government Weather Service.
11:00 pm: I go to bed for the night, worrying about how the Big Evil Government is destroying my freedom.
A child needs government to raise them from cradle to grave. An adult doesn't.
To think that the FDA which inspects less than 2% of our food somehow protects us is childish.
To think that paying higher prices because of government controlled internet is a good thing is mind boggling.
Good to know that if the restaurant is filthy you can just look at the health certificate on the wall given out by someone who was there for 1 hour over a years time and that means it's safe, Whatever you do don't use your own judgement.
Big evil government protect you from the big evil government housing boom and bust that ruined the eocnomy?
Thank goodness for government involvement in the weather because it's December, there's snow on the ground and if it weren't for govenment I wouldn't have the sense to go inside and get warm.
But you keep bowing down to your handlers if it helps you sleep at night.
Did he promise them $2.00 and change his mind after they agreed? The landowner would be wrong in that situation.
My point was basically this: If you're on an island by yourself, you can't just sit there and expect to get food, obviously. You need to go out and make it happen. Add more people to the equation, and someone still has to do the work if you want to be fed. People act as if they're entitled to a job, or food, or whatever because they NEED it...but no, that is false. The fact that you need food doesn't place an obligation on anyone else to give it to you.
That said, people can and do choose to out of good will, and I'd argue that they definitely should be doing so for people who are legitimately disabled and can't provide for themselves.
Why would they need to when government took over that job?
Why would a dishonest statement be an example? An agreement was made for $2 a bushel. Breaking an agreement somehow means one is a libertarian? It means you don't care about the truth
But Cool story, bro...
Bro, the above story actually happened during the 1930's, it was called whipsawing. And, may I point out in my example, the Land Owner had been paying $2 per bushel and unilaterally decided to lower wages. There was no 'agreement' between the Land Owner and the Farm Workers, but simply an offer that was proffered and later rescinded in favor of an offer more advantageous to the Land Owner.
Libertarian thought is that the Land Owner and the Farm Workers are on equal terms vis-a-vis their bargaining positions, but the reality is that the Land Owner, with armed security and force of the law behind him, has all of the power behind him.
May I ask, in the story that I presented what libertarian solution is available to the Farm Workers?
Ah the poor should just starve to death argument how did that work out during the french revolution?
Please explain what policies and events exactly led to the initial stages of the French Revolution? I want to see if you have more knowledge than the standard liberal/progressive brochures provide. Specifically, what led to the Paris bread riots? Enthrall us with your acumen.
Bro, the above story actually happened during the 1930's. And, may I point out in my example, the Land Owner had been paying $2 per bushel and unilaterally decided to lower wages. There was no 'agreement' between the Land Owner and the Farm Workers, but simply an offer that was proffered and later rescinded in favor of an offer more advantageous to the Land Owner.
Libertarian thought is that the Land Owner and the Farm Workers are on equal terms vis-a-vis their bargaining positions, but the reality is that the Land Owner, with armed security and force of the law behind him, has all of the power behind him.
May I ask, in the story that I presented what libertarian solution is available to the Farm Workers?
Fault was the Farm Workers. They failed to ensure a binding contract prior to making investments on an ephemeral offer.
The solution is don't go off half cocked over a bar room offer.
7 am: I slept peacefully in my bed all night thanks to the Big Evil Government police and criminal justice system, which discourages crime. I took my heartburn medication which is safe to take because of the Big Evil Government FDA.
7:30 am: the breakfast I ate was safe to eat because of Big Evil Government FDA and USDA regulations on food and agriculture.
8:00 am: I drive to work and arrived in one piece thanks to Big Evil Government automobile safety regulations. Big Evil Government made sure that the bridges I crossed underwent regular safety inspections and maintenance.
8:30 am: I arrive at work, where my boss is not allowed to abuse me thanks to Big Evil Government labor laws. The building is safe because of Big Evil Government building codes. The town surrounding the plant is livable because of Big Evil Government EPA regulations.
12:00 pm: I eat lunch at Joe's Dinner, and the food was safe to eat because of the Big Evil Government health department. The employees were paid enough to survive because of Big Evil Government minimum wage laws.
1:00 pm: Back to work, where my boss was forced to stop sexually harassing one of the female employees under his supervision because of Big Evil Government laws against sexual harassment.
5:00 pm: I drove home and stopped for gasoline, which was safe to put in my tank thanks to Big Evil Government regulations. The Big Evil Government bureau of weights and measures made sure that I really was getting a gallon of gas when the pump said I got a gallon of gas.
5:30 pm: I arrived home safely because of Big Evil Government traffic laws that discourage reckless driving and drunk driving.
6:00 pm: My steak is safe to eat because it was inspected by the Big Evil Government USDA. My gas grill doesn't explode because of Big Evil Government consumer protection laws.
7:00 pm: I get on the internet, which was made possible by Big Evil Government research during the Cold War. I turn on my satellite TV service which was made possible by the Big Evil Government space program. My lights work because of the nuclear power plant in town, which was made possible by Big Evil Government research on nuclear fission. The nuclear plant is safe because of regular Big Evil Government NRC and EPA inspections.
10:00 pm: I turn up my heat because I know that tonight will be cold, thanks to the Big Evil Government Weather Service.
11:00 pm: I go to bed for the night, worrying about how the Big Evil Government is destroying my freedom.
Thank goodness the government regulates and puts out guidelines for food consumption that has directly lead to our obesity epidemic. Keep eating them grains!
7 am: I slept peacefully in my bed all night thanks to the Big Evil Government police and criminal justice system, which discourages crime. I took my heartburn medication which is safe to take because of the Big Evil Government FDA.
7:30 am: the breakfast I ate was safe to eat because of Big Evil Government FDA and USDA regulations on food and agriculture.
8:00 am: I drive to work and arrived in one piece thanks to Big Evil Government automobile safety regulations. Big Evil Government made sure that the bridges I crossed underwent regular safety inspections and maintenance.
8:30 am: I arrive at work, where my boss is not allowed to abuse me thanks to Big Evil Government labor laws. The building is safe because of Big Evil Government building codes. The town surrounding the plant is livable because of Big Evil Government EPA regulations.
12:00 pm: I eat lunch at Joe's Dinner, and the food was safe to eat because of the Big Evil Government health department. The employees were paid enough to survive because of Big Evil Government minimum wage laws.
1:00 pm: Back to work, where my boss was forced to stop sexually harassing one of the female employees under his supervision because of Big Evil Government laws against sexual harassment.
5:00 pm: I drove home and stopped for gasoline, which was safe to put in my tank thanks to Big Evil Government regulations. The Big Evil Government bureau of weights and measures made sure that I really was getting a gallon of gas when the pump said I got a gallon of gas.
5:30 pm: I arrived home safely because of Big Evil Government traffic laws that discourage reckless driving and drunk driving.
6:00 pm: My steak is safe to eat because it was inspected by the Big Evil Government USDA. My gas grill doesn't explode because of Big Evil Government consumer protection laws.
7:00 pm: I get on the internet, which was made possible by Big Evil Government research during the Cold War. I turn on my satellite TV service which was made possible by the Big Evil Government space program. My lights work because of the nuclear power plant in town, which was made possible by Big Evil Government research on nuclear fission. The nuclear plant is safe because of regular Big Evil Government NRC and EPA inspections.
10:00 pm: I turn up my heat because I know that tonight will be cold, thanks to the Big Evil Government Weather Service.
11:00 pm: I go to bed for the night, worrying about how the Big Evil Government is destroying my freedom.
1. Government, in it's current form is not necessary for any of that.
2. You didn't name anything that you do that the government does not meddle with in some way.
As opposed to getting screwed by the government? Governments are made up of imperfect people.
Indeed. That's why I believe in accountable government: we need government based on democratic elections that are free of corruption by special interests. Special interests like to use government to screw people. Unfortunately, libertarians want special interests to have the freedom to buy elections...because...you know...freedom!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB
A
This is just the rambling of someone who can't consider any philosophy outside of the system they have been under their entire life. You've posted similar threads to this before & you either still don't understand Libertarianism or you are misrepresenting the argument intentionally. If you want to argue that libertarian policies would have that effect, then make that argument. Don't make a complete misrepresentation of what libertarians believe.
Take it up with the Koch Brothers. They are the ones who bankroll libertarian think tanks like the Cato Institute and the Reason Foundation.
If you think that Cato and Reason are not representative of "true" libertarianism, then you need to send them some emails and inform them of their heresy. Good luck!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
