Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I hate to break it to the both of you, but America is a superpower for basically the same reason China will become a superpower; We are a large country, with a large population, with a lot of resources.
Unlike the other major powers(such as the European powers), we were protected by two oceans. Allowing us to dominate most of the Western Hemisphere. Since we are, and have been, the only major power in the entire hemisphere going back to Christopher Columbus.
Also, being protected allowed us to reap huge benefits after the European powers nearly destroyed each other in WWI and WWII. America didn't become the industrial and technological behemoth it now is, until WWII. In large part, because Europe was destroyed, and a large number of scientists(and their technology/knowledge) were brought to America.
Also, you don't need every single person in your country to be a genius to be successful. You need someone to dig the ditches and to lay the bricks. America allows millions of the most-uneducated people in the world to immigrate here, legally or illegally, because we want low-wage labor to keep down production costs, and for general "economic-growth"(more people means more consumption).
It simply isn't beneficial for 100% of the population to have a STEM degree. There are far more things that need to be done than just math and science.
There is a lot of hoopla about intelligence and "formal education"(which is often erroneously associated with intelligence/ability) and its relationship with a country's success. But what makes a country successful is not raw intelligence, but social cooperation.
Think of the ideal nation as being kind of like an ant farm. Where everyone is happily cooperating for some common benefit. And a dysfunctional nation, being one where people generally don't want to cooperate with anyone at all.
Countries which cooperate are almost always wealthy. Those who don't, aren't. Regardless of race.
What should be concerning about America going forward, is our increasing distrust for our government. Which has caused a lot of people to basically "check-out" of society, if they aren't actively working against it.
Until pretty recently, the "West" had very high levels of trust in their governments, and in the people around them. That seems to be dying. And I'm not sure whether it can or should be saved.
...interesting hypothesis. Can you point to examples of successful countries that are low-IQ but rank high by some measure of cooperation?
America used to be known as a country that strived to excel. Then red states started calling the educated "elitists" and elected a president that said he loves the uneducated. Now half the country demonizes universities and those who attend them. At this rate they will soon be competing for who is the least educated.
Where he basically says that the arts and sciences turn us into ****ty people, and they have actually made us less free.
The early socialists were themselves often anti-science. Karl Marx was not a fan of the industrial revolution. Which he also thought stripped men of their freedom and independence. As they became dependent on employers to live, and were often little better than livestock.
As Thomas Jefferson wrote, "(The Indian) considers the cares of industry as degrading occupations; he compares the plowman to the ox that traces the furrow; and in each of our handicrafts he can see only the labor of slaves."
There is an assumption that an intellectual, or an elite, is actually just that, elite. And when I say elite, what I'm really referring to is the general sentiment or the connotation attached to the word. Which is intended to say that these men are "better" than the rest of us. Thus the assumption is that someone who is anti-intellectual, or anti-elite, is anti-knowledge, or anti-truth.
In reality, the elites are merely a certain "class" of people, who have, as Karl Marx himself would say, their own "class interests". Which are often in opposition to the interests of other classes. And these elites which we often speak of, aren't necessarily men of much intelligence or ability. I mean, pretty much every member of Congress would be categorized as an elite, but how many Congressmen are even intelligent? The average IQ of Congress probably isn't far off from the national average. So if it isn't intelligence or knowledge which sets these men apart, then what is it?
In a word, ambition. To get to that position, you have to want it. These aren't "normal" people. Normal people just want to live their lives. No, the elites are actually quite abnormal people. Which is why they are overwhelmingly a bunch of narcissists, who need constant attention and adoration.
And this is why socialism was often associated with anti-intellectualism. The intellectuals were a bunch of spoiled brats, who lived off the work of others, while pretending they were better than everyone else, even though, in many cases, they were completely undeserving of their positions.
"The average pub in a coal-mining village contains more intelligence and wisdom than the British Cabinet or the high table of an Oxbridge college." - George Orwell
Last edited by Redshadowz; 10-24-2017 at 01:49 AM..
...interesting hypothesis. Can you point to examples of successful countries that are low-IQ but rank high by some measure of cooperation?
You need to define your criteria for "low IQ". I can only assume you are talking about Africa?
Africa is complicated. You can't really compare Africa to Europe, since Africa, until pretty recently, hasn't been organized into anything which remotely resembles real nations. Only a bunch of tribes, who don't necessarily like each other, even if they are technically in the same country. Which is why Africa is so prone to Civil War and genocide. Because they have two or more tribes occupying the same territory, fighting for control.
There is basically zero trust in Africa.
In any case, don't forget that most of Northern Europe was "uncivilized"(IE Vikings and what-not) for the entire duration of the Roman Empire. The great advancements of "The West", are pretty recent, and seem to be largely the result of the "Nation-state".
There might be an argument that, the hierarchical and institutional basis of the nation-state, and its associated authority and voluntary cooperation, require some minimal level of IQ. And I wouldn't doubt it, but I don't think that minimum is 125, or 100, or even 85. There are plenty of people in those ranges which do just fine.
I am from a family of teachers. It's not unions who determine what they teach, it's the school board.
Not quite. The School Board reviews recommendations made by school administrators and school district "curriculum specialists." Then, they vote whether or not to approve. It is, in fact, educators themselves who decide how to conduct schools.
Quote:
Unions just negotiate teacher pay and benefits. Teachers are short staffed. Many states are eliminating para educators which they desperately need.
Why are there students requiring paras in the regular classroom in the first place? Why aren't classes grouped by skill level/ability, and the curriculum and pace adjusted accordingly to meet each group's needs? Those are both things schools can do to improve education, but deliberately don't.
Quote:
Teachers have to spend their own money to buy supplies for their classroom each year.
That has been true for as long as I can remember. That's why I always sent my kids with extra supplies from the 2 page list they got before the beginning of each school year.
As an example of how schools constantly f* up, I'll never forget the time the doe-eyed young teacher decided my (then) 2nd-grader's class was going to have "community supplies." That was supposed to facilitate class cohesiveness. Everyone shared pencils, markers, crayons, etc. and there was a bin in the middle of the table (yes, they sat at tables in groups, not at desks) to keep them in when not in use. Well within a month, the pencils were sharpened to about a 2" length, the erasers had all been chewed off, the crayons were broken and a lot of colors were missing, and the markers had all dried out (caps missing). You see, lack of ownership results in lack of caring. Exactly like the Cabrini-Green public housing projects that had to be condemned and demolished.
One final word on that teacher... She insisted each student bring note cards and an indexed note card box. She had the students laboriously write that week's spelling word list, one word to a card. Words like: Cat, Dog, Bird, etc. (You see, most of the class couldn't yet read). Each student had the same list so everyone can share the boxes. Just grab one and go.
I let that BS go on for a few weeks, hoping the teacher would notice my that kid was reading at the 7th grade level, and those spelling list words were completely inadequate. Nope. Everyone had to do the same; be the same. Believe me, I had a LOT of teacher, principal, superintendent meetings over that one. They were resistant to and ugly about teaching each student to the best of their ability. It was lock-step only, and if I didn't like it, too bad.
I was finally able to negotiate a deal that my kid could, at will, opt out of the lock-step reading/writing/spelling/math lessons, and choose a different educational activity (which was my responsibility to supply). That actually spurred a couple of other students on in the class. They wanted the opt out choice, as well, but had to prove to the teacher that they had already mastered what was being "taught." The kids in that class made more progress in one year than they ever had before.
This is true. But the danger is, that if we keep promulgating the message that college is for snot-nosed sissies lacking common-sense, our next generation will be just slightly less educated, and so forth, until indeed the prophesy fulfills itself.
This country is filled to the brim with people who can explain white supremacist hierarchies and transgender theories from three different intersectional perspectives..... but who also "literally can't even adult" and live well into their 30s centering their lives around cos-play, videogames or otherwise extending adolescence indefinitely while having 2-3 degrees.
Perhaps "education" needs to be more narrowly defined before this debate can be continued.
Having a post-undergrad degree myself I know the value of education. But I also know that there's far too many who associate simply LIVING in an area where OTHER PEOPLE are educated or successful with their OWN self-image or contribution to society. Or the mere fact that you have a degree with being some kind of accomplishment. I don't consider it one, especially given the reputation of colleges and universities these days for lowering standards and academic rigor outside of the STEM fields.
America used to be known as a country that strived to excel. Then red states started calling the educated "elitists" and elected a president that said he loves the uneducated. Now half the country demonizes universities and those who attend them. At this rate they will soon be competing for who is the least educated.
There is a book called "the rise and fall of the great empires". In talking about Britain it talks about the high literacy rate when Britain was at it's zenith. Back around WW 2 a high school education in the USA was a good education. It led to a good job. College led to a great job.
We are headed in the wrong direction on several levels.
Because we champion the individual rather than the collective. We do not try to centrally plan or "rig" our economy like almost every other country does. It leads to massive misallocation of resources. We also have the strongest military in the world, by far, which we use to protect the empire in a number of different ways.
There are a lot of dumb people in every country....
The issue seems to be that "dumb" people in the US actually get a say in things. Dumb people are scattered everywhere and some of them even have money and status.
A lot of Europeans, while well educated and multilingual, are quite naïve.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
