Thank you Sen Flake (abortions, dictators, parties, gay people)

[Pilot1]

Originally Posted by Timmyy

More of them need to retire from government service. It wouldn't be a problem if there were term limits.

Totally agree.

[thaifood]

They're all so brave when on their way out, true heroes.......not

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by jimj

What I find funny with this whole deal, it looks to me that the major complaints and bitc#ing from Flake,Corker and those on here are not about real policy items but totally about "we don't like him" or "we don't like how he talks".
Our last president was a smooth talker (while on prompter) and was a guy most would probably enjoy having a beer with or at your backyard bbq/dinner party but sucked when it came to policies or legislation.

So, the question that has to be answered is "is it mandatory that you really like the person running the country?"
I look at it like I looked at my neurosurgeon, he had the personality/bedside manner of a bed pan and I couldn't personally stand him but he had great hands and could do things many cutters couldn't. I'll take that any day over the lesser people that I liked.

I do disagree with The Cheeto on policy.

- I don't want a border wall
- I want marijuana removed from DEA Schedule I
- I want abortion to remain legal
- I want gay marriage to remain legal
- I want LGBT individuals to become a recognized protected class in regards to discrimination
- I want Nationalized Single Payer Healthcare
- I want a national minimum wage indexed to inflation, so that it doesn't have to be squabbled about every few years
- I want public housing brought back for the indigent, as it will also help relieve some pressure on market rate housing, as the indigent won't be competing with the rest of us for market rate units

The Cheeto doesn't want any of that, therefore my disagreements with him are on policy and his personality!

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

I will list just two, because I'm at work.

A. The chemtrails thing

And B. The Cheeto endorses her

B is enough for me, I would vote for the opposite candidate of whoever he endorses

I don't like Kelli, but the chemtrails thing is a distraction. She isn't stupid and doesn't believe in chemtrails. She had a public meeting basically debunking them for her constituency.

I don't like Bannon either, and he worries me the most. Now she has the money.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok

My point was exactly that - yes, they are the dominant force behind Republicans inclined to vote, which means that Republicans opposed to Trump can’t win primaries, but they are not a majority in most states either. Maybe they will still vote for candidates who are willing to give Trump a pass on everything in general elections, but maybe they won’t.

I was a Republican pre-Trump. I won’t vote for a Republican now unless that Republican is willing to stand up to this lunacy. I’m not the norm (unfortunately), but I also don’t think I’m alone. While I am not an Arizona voter, there have to be some like-minded voters in every state.

With that being said, I agree that Democrats have some serious work to do in Middle America. I have my doubts they’ll do that anytime soon.

I think there's lots of crap coming out right now that's going to horribly taint at least one side (Dems) and it's yet to be seen if some will splash over to the other side (GOP) who have serious issues of their own.

I'm going back to what I've said for a long while.....TERM LIMITS NOW.
We also need a 3rd possibly 4th party.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

I do disagree with The Cheeto on policy.

- I don't want a border wall
- I want marijuana removed from DEA Schedule I
- I want abortion to remain legal
- I want gay marriage to remain legal
- I want LGBT individuals to become a recognized protected class in regards to discrimination
- I want Nationalized Single Payer Healthcare
- I want a national minimum wage indexed to inflation, so that it doesn't have to be squabbled about every few years
- I want public housing brought back for the indigent, as it will also help relieve some pressure on market rate housing, as the indigent won't be competing with the rest of us for market rate units

The Cheeto doesn't want any of that, therefore my disagreements with him are on policy and his personality!

I want the border sealed and reasonable immigration. Why don't you?

I agree,marijuana should be reduced to schedule 2 so it can be legally studied

There should be some limits on abortion (trimester linked) and it shouldn't be used as birth control.

I don't care about gay marriage, it's legal and Trump can't change that, SCOTUS ruled.

LGBT don't need become a protected class via any more legislation just like short people shouldn't.

The government can't even give reliable,quality healthcare to our vets so why the hell should we trust them with ours? Not to mention I'm not for rationing or death panels.

Minimum wage should be tied to whatever the market will bear.

Public housing is already available or did you miss Section 8?

You are aware you're talking like a Progressive or Bernie Sanders voter right?

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by jimj

I want the border sealed and reasonable immigration. Why don't you?

I agree,marijuana should be reduced to schedule 2 so it can be legally studied

There should be some limits on abortion (trimester linked) and it shouldn't be used as birth control.

I don't care about gay marriage, it's legal and Trump can't change that, SCOTUS ruled.

LGBT don't need become a protected class via any more legislation just like short people shouldn't.

The government can't even give reliable,quality healthcare to our vets so why the hell should we trust them with ours? Not to mention I'm not for rationing or death panels.

Minimum wage should be tied to whatever the market will bear.

Public housing is already available or did you miss Section 8?

You are aware you're talking like a Progressive or Bernie Sanders voter right?

I will address three of your rebuttals

One, LGBT do need to be a protected class, as people can beat them up or fire them with no repercussions right now

Two, abortion as birth control is better than forcing someone to have a kid that they don't want and most likely can't pay for, therefore we all pay through welfare

And three, Section 8 roles have been closed, and the only major cities that still have public housing in the traditional sense are New York City and Los Angeles. So what good is a Section 8 voucher when if you apply today, you might get vouchers in 2025 if you are lucky. More importantly, in that 8 year wait, that person is still subjected to either market rate housing that they can't afford, or more likely, homelessness

And, yes I did vote for Sanders in the primary and would have in the general election if he had won the Primary. He supported what I want, not the Republicans, who are pretty much against every single issue I support

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok

The problem is that Trumpers are now a very solid majority of Republican primary voters. Republican senators who dare to criticize Trump face not just bullying and inappropriate tweets from Trump, but also can’t win primaries in most states.

They think they’re actually the majority of Americans in general. Polling (from the same pollsters that, despite the Trumpers’ incessant whining and moaning, FACTS show were accurate in 2016) shows they’re not. All we can do is hope that the people who are not part of the Trump cult, but who may typically vote Republican, will be willing to not hold their noses and vote for the pro-Trump candidates, even if it means voting Democrat or staying home.

On the bold, I honestly don't agree with that. Trump did not get the majority of votes in his own primary in 2016. I think if the field hadn't been so large, he never would have won the primary.

I think that Flake and other regular Republicans being more forceful against the idiocy of the Trumpsters will appeal to the real Republicans and especially them exhibiting what Flake exhibited in his speech recently will reach out to people and get them to vote for like minded GOP candidates.

I am an independent and always have been. However, I know that people are VERY attached to their parties and those moderate Republicans who don't like Trump, like you mentioned you used to be yourself, instead of voting for a Democrat, they will either vote for the Trumpster or they'll vote for some 3rd party candidate who has no chance of winning and the Trumpster will get in office. Give them a viable, sane alternative and I do think that the sane candidate has a chance. All they have to do is appeal to common sense, morality, and decency. Contrary to what many of the Trumpsters believe, these characteristics are desired by GOPers who are not on Trump's bandwagon. I think Flake and Corker bowing out is making other traditional Republicans look to bowing out of the party as well and unfortunately our masses who only vote GOP will just support these lunatic candidates because they want a dictatorship in our country.

On this:

Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok

My point was exactly that - yes, they are the dominant force behind Republicans inclined to vote, which means that Republicans opposed to Trump can’t win primaries, but they are not a majority in most states either. Maybe they will still vote for candidates who are willing to give Trump a pass on everything in general elections, but maybe they won’t.

I was a Republican pre-Trump. I won’t vote for a Republican now unless that Republican is willing to stand up to this lunacy. I’m not the norm (unfortunately), but I also don’t think I’m alone. While I am not an Arizona voter, there have to be some like-minded voters in every state.

With that being said, I agree that Democrats have some serious work to do in Middle America. I have my doubts they’ll do that anytime soon.

The bold is exactly what I'm speaking of.

I also agree that Dems have work to do in Middle America but the GOP should not be depending on them to offer alternatives to their base. The GOP base will vote GOP in Middle America so it is up to the GOP to offer those alternatives in primaries.

FWIW on Dems, I do think in specific states they are really focused on gaining more votes (I live in Ohio and I know a lot of Dems involved in the party and DNC and who are delegates and they are very serious on the local level with reaching out to voters. Also in MI they are reaching out a lot in the SE MI area and in PA, those states going back blue would be a boon to the Dems).

I honestly do feel that our senator here in Ohio - Sherrod Brown may run for president in 2020 and he would win Ohio versus Trump right there. However, if Kasich runs against Trump in the primary in 2020, I think that Kasich can beat him since he has been consistent in not supporting Trump's lunacy and I think that will draw in voters like yourself. Contrary to what the Trumpsters think Kasich is super conservative, on some issues I don't like him at all because he is too conservative. But he would be a great challenger to Trump in the 2020 primary and I think the GOP needs to be working on its own strategy to get rid of Trump and his minions via a primary and making sure that it is a solid defeat for Trump so he can GTFO of our White House.

[mkpunk]

Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok

My whole point was that he can oppose Trump and still vote for Trump’s nominees and policies given that this is more about fitness than substantive issues, and I see no inconsistency. Regardless, I’m glad you won’t be voting for Ward. I hope she isn’t elected, for all our sakes.

I do because if he is so against Trump, why vote for things Trump wants in his agenda?

Originally Posted by in_newengland

I heard somewhere that Flake might turn Democrat. Food for thought. Better than giving up and retiring and maybe he would balance out some of the Dems who have gone too looney/too far left.

I still wouldn't vote for him. He is a phony and would be even worse as a Democrat. Why because he doesn't have a Democrat, even on the conservative side voting record. He has voted for every repeal bill, tax cuts to the rich, tax increases to the middle class, and against LBGTQ more than he is for them.

[afoigrokerkok]

Originally Posted by mkpunk

I do because if he is so against Trump, why vote for things Trump wants in his agenda?

Because he supports what he’s voting for? My entire point is that he can support Trump’s policy agenda (not that he does fully, but it’s beside the point) but still feel that Trump does not have the fitness to be president.