Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
From reading the article, I don't think Gutierrez (the author) is arguing that math concepts such as pi and the Pythagorean theorem are racist. Rather, she is arguing that learning math is not completely divorced from sociological issues of race and ethnicity in America. That's not the same thing.
" Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries; for mathematics, the cultural world is one country." - David Hilbert, German mathematician.
It you want to understand American universities today, you should read The Closing of the American Mind by Allan Bloom. It has its detractors, the leftists who run education today, but as one who was there during the decomposition, it's right on.
At that time most of the people in the world were able to do some algebraic calculations...
Nobody doubt that the craddle of civilization is in Mesopotamia ( nobody knows the ethnicity ) but Italians renaissance mathematicians were responsible for the most important developments in algebra since Babylonians-Mesopotamia. In simple words.. for hundreds and hundreds of years there has been no significant progress in algebra.... till Italian renaissance time... who paved also the road of to Newton and Leibniz..who discovered properly integral and differential calculus..
Point is, who were the individual Egyptians and Babylonians who taught the Greeks, who in turn passed on knowledge to the Italians centuries later?
As noted above, the professor didn't call math racist; however she is correct that the history of mathematics leaves out non-Europeans as if they had nothing to do with its evolution.
This is the case for a lot of subjects honestly. It is interesting that today many more educators are interested in including the true history of the subject and yet the OP and others on the thread think the professor is the "racist" one lol. You admit algebra was known before Europeans knew it yet I doubt you know anything about its development prior to Europeans claiming it as their own. And in the case of Egyptian and Babylonian origins (amongst others in Asia) it is never mentioned how those cultures cultivated the study of mathematics. It is also not often mentioned that the Italian renaissance in mathematics would have been impossible without the Moorish invasion of Europe. The Moors basically brought Europeans out of the dark ages and their impact was very prominent in regards to math and science in Europe.
Not sure what is wrong with speaking of these facts. Hell "algebra" itself is an Arabic word.
The real issue in this thread and what the professor speaks on in regards to the history of mathematics is why are you all so intent on not including non-European roots of mathematics and science. Why does it make you get defensive when non-European roots are brought up? It is very strange honestly because most people who know anything about the history of math know that it has its root outside of Europe and people who read the writings of Greek philosophers know that the Greeks went to Egypt to study and gain knowledge. They did not deny the fact that Arabs and Africans were great thinkers and scientists so it is strange that people today are so intent on denying these facts or glossing over them.
Point is, who were the individual Egyptians and Babylonians who taught the Greeks, who in turn passed on knowledge to the Italians centuries later?
As noted above, the professor didn't call math racist; however she is correct that the history of mathematics leaves out non-Europeans as if they had nothing to do with its evolution.
It is not racism to remember the real persons ( with name and family name ) who had improved algebra and mathematics which had remained the same as thousands of years ago..
It is a fact that neither the Indians nor the Chinese nor the Arabs had succeeded in advancing the algebra from the Babylonian times.
Quote:
This is the case for a lot of subjects honestly. It is interesting that today many more educators are interested in including the true history of the subject and yet the OP and others on the thread think the professor is the "racist" one lol. You admit algebra was known before Europeans knew it yet I doubt you know anything about its development prior to Europeans claiming it as their own. And in the case of Egyptian and Babylonian origins (amongst others in Asia) it is never mentioned how those cultures cultivated the study of mathematics. It is also not often mentioned that the Italian renaissance in mathematics would have been impossible without the Moorish invasion of Europe. The Moors basically brought Europeans out of the dark ages and their impact was very prominent in regards to math and science in Europe.
In England and in all the world are very popular Romeo and Juliet.... Hamlet... The Merchant of Venice...
Do you think that is important to remember the man who wrote the PLAYS ?
Shakespeare had not invented the alphabet and the grammar rules...
Quote:
Not sure what is wrong with speaking of these facts. Hell "algebra" itself is an Arabic word.
And computer is a Latin word ( Computare )
Quote:
The real issue in this thread and what the professor speaks on in regards to the history of mathematics is why are you all so intent on not including non-European roots of mathematics and science. Why does it make you get defensive when non-European roots are brought up? It is very strange honestly because most people who know anything about the history of math know that it has its root outside of Europe and people who read the writings of Greek philosophers know that the Greeks went to Egypt to study and gain knowledge. They did not deny the fact that Arabs and Africans were great thinkers and scientists so it is strange that people today are so intent on denying these facts or glossing over them.
Mathematic History is incomplete without names of the people who made algebra and calculus great
Please correct my english if there are errors...or if the meaning is not clear..
It is not racism to remember the real persons ( with name and family name ) who had improved algebra and mathematics which had remained the same as thousands of years ago..
It is a fact that neither the Indians nor the Chinese nor the Arabs had succeeded in advancing the algebra from the Babylonian times.
In England and in all the world are very popular Romeo and Juliet.... Hamlet... The Merchant of Venice...
Do you think that is important to remember the man who wrote the PLAYS ?
Shakespeare had not invented the alphabet and the grammar rules...
And computer is a Latin word ( Computare )
Mathematic History is incomplete without names of the people who made algebra and calculus great
Please correct my english if there are errors...or if the meaning is not clear..
Thanks in advance..
FYI - do you know that people are aware of the names of important Arab and African mathematicians that pre-date many of the known European mathmeticians.
That is the point.
Many names are known yet they are not readily discussed.
In regards to "Pythagora's Theorem," the fact that it is named after Pythagora is historically kind of sneaky in a way as his name being its title makes it seem like he created it when it is known by math historians that ancient Babylonians used the theorem 1000-1500 years before Pythagora was born. So even though there is no specific Babylonian mathematician's name credited with it's discovery, there is archeological/written proof that the Babylonians used the theorem so his name being associated with it is historically a fallacy since he did not create it and it was a well known theorem centuries before he was born.
Also if only names are important, then one should never speak about ancient marvels of specific cultures/civilizations or their achievements since, everyone's name isn't known lol. We shouldn't speak of a society's history of the use of fire or the development of the wheel or pullies, etc., since it is not known who individually discovered or invented these things by your logic.
I'll note that individuality in the present and near past is a new phenomenon anthropologically in the history of humanity. New thoughts, discoveries, academics, etc., previously were not vainly attached to an individual since many ancient people did not separate themselves based on our arbitrary caste systems or have a desire to boast about their individual talents. Those talents/activities were usually used as well by a royal or higher ups in society and individuals wouldn't normally be praised in a way that was more prominent than a deity or their ruler.
But will note, I've been recently reading about various "secret societies" and specific masonic orders in black America and their origins/relationships to secret societies of African nations (I'd have to write too much to describe this sort of thing to you but basically when young men were initiated, they often had to continuously, throughout their lives prove themselves to be worthy of admittance to specific societies that were about specific tribes/nations or subjects/types of work). In many African tribes/nations those secret societies were tasked with protecting knowledge (sometimes of a single subject) and only those judged to be worthy were allowed to be learned in that knowledge or aware of it via knowledge schools. I mentioned Greek philosophers earlier and Plato, Socrates, and Aristotle all went to Egypt, some stayed over a decade to study in their knowledge schools, which many consider to be secret societies. History is interesting when we look at it from a perspective not bound and confined with present day silliness like claiming that including non-Europeans in imparting of mathematical historical knowledge is "racism." It is not and I think most people would find it fascinating that math has a great history in the experiences of humans on this earth and that different societies/civilizations used it and developed it to where it is today and that it is ever changing even today. I think this would make all youth more interested in math instead of people bickering about "racism" and trying to prove that people due to their ethnic origins aren't "good" at math.
FYI - do you know that people are aware of the names of important Arab and African mathematicians that pre-date many of the known European mathmeticians.
How can you explain the fact that these important Arab and African ( and Chinese and Indian) mathematicians were not able to improve the algebra knowledge since Babylonians ?
That is the point.
Quote:
Many names are known yet they are not readily discussed.
In regards to "Pythagora's Theorem," the fact that it is named after Pythagora is historically kind of sneaky in a way as his name being its title makes it seem like he created it when it is known by math historians that ancient Babylonians used the theorem 1000-1500 years before Pythagora was born. So even though there is no specific Babylonian mathematician's name credited with it's discovery, there is archeological/written proof that the Babylonians used the theorem so his name being associated with it is historically a fallacy since he did not create it and it was a well known theorem centuries before he was born.
What is important for every mathematic and geometric theorem.. is the "demonstration"..
The only known ancient Pythagor's Theorem demonstrations.... are Pytagora demonstrations..
The Greek's innovations in mathematic and geometry field.. were their demostrations also.
Nobody before Greece did clearly any mathematic demonstration.....
Quote:
Also if only names are important, then one should never speak about ancient marvels of specific cultures/civilizations or their achievements since, everyone's name isn't known lol. We shouldn't speak of a society's history of the use of fire or the development of the wheel or pullies, etc., since it is not known who individually discovered or invented these things by your logic.
You are right and wrong.. No one knows the name of the men who discovered the wheel.. but when the name of the person who discovered something is known ...it is important to make him known to people. It is not racism.. it is gratitude..
Quote:
I'll note that individuality in the present and near past is a new phenomenon anthropologically in the history of humanity. New thoughts, discoveries, academics, etc., previously were not vainly attached to an individual since many ancient people did not separate themselves based on our arbitrary caste systems or have a desire to boast about their individual talents. Those talents/activities were usually used as well by a royal or higher ups in society and individuals wouldn't normally be praised in a way that was more prominent than a deity or their ruler.
E=mc2.... Is important to remember Einstein or not ? Is not important to know who is the score-leader of Los Angeles Lakers ?
Quote:
But will note, I've been recently reading about various "secret societies" and specific masonic orders in black America and their origins/relationships to secret societies of African nations (I'd have to write too much to describe this sort of thing to you but basically when young men were initiated, they often had to continuously, throughout their lives prove themselves to be worthy of admittance to specific societies that were about specific tribes/nations or subjects/types of work). In many African tribes/nations those secret societies were tasked with protecting knowledge (sometimes of a single subject) and only those judged to be worthy were allowed to be learned in that knowledge or aware of it via knowledge schools. I mentioned Greek philosophers earlier and Plato, Socrates, and Aristotle all went to Egypt, some stayed over a decade to study in their knowledge schools, which many consider to be secret societies. History is interesting when we look at it from a perspective not bound and confined with present day silliness like claiming that including non-Europeans in imparting of mathematical historical knowledge is "racism." It is not and I think most people would find it fascinating that math has a great history in the experiences of humans on this earth and that different societies/civilizations used it and developed it to where it is today and that it is ever changing even today. I think this would make all youth more interested in math instead of people bickering about "racism" and trying to prove that people due to their ethnic origins aren't "good" at math.
Do you think that only Plato, Socrates, and Aristotle went to Egypt to learn ?
What about other people (not Greeks ) living during the same period of Plato.... Did not they go to Egypt to learn ?
Last edited by asiago12; 06-02-2018 at 01:50 AM..
Reason: n
I can't think of any riveting conversations that began with Pi or Pythagorean Theorem. So it very well could be racist but I wouldn't know since I distance myself from anyone bringing up math equations.
“Who gets credit for doing and developing mathematics, who is capable in mathematics, and who is seen as part of the mathematical community is generally viewed as White.”
OK - now I'm starting to get it.
Do you see what this is? They are basically saying it is racist because whites are smarter and more reasoned than other races... and when they perpetuate their smarts, it is creating an unfair advantage towards other races, and therefore is racist.
Look at what I underlined... white privilege has to do with abstract reasoning - implied, other races can't reason. Those who develop and are good at math are white. Implied - other races aren't good at math.
They have to dial it down for us blacks and hispanics.
Really?
For decades, that line of thinking was applied to men over women.
I guess I should claim "sex appropriation" that she has the gall to apply what has been used against women to benefit her cause.
I understand her misconception. It is the reaction of a person confronted with the unknown, something beyond her ability to know. A problem that because she can't solve it, has no solution.
Ancient Greeks largely created mathematics as a field of study. Although math was used in all societies that had civic plazas, that built with masonry, that used irrigation. Early kinds of humans had no such things and didn't need the maths and because they didn't have them, they remained backwards.
Archimedes method for estimating Pi as bounded by polygons inside and outside a circle (between 223/71 and 22/7). Pythagoras for proving the theorem named for him. He also discovered the relationship between the length of strings and the notes of the octave.
Plato, although not a mathematician per se, for passing on the work of Pythagoras to Euclid and others. Above the entrance to his Academy was inscribed, "Let no one ignorant of mathematics enter here".
Euclid's Elements is the most successful mathematic text in history and Euclidean geometry has been taught for over 2000 years. He said, "There is no royal road to geometry."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
