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Considering the fact that Moore's opponent has no problem with killing a child in the 9th month, I would have no problem voting for a guy who would try to stop it even if he did have an attraction for teenagers 40 years ago, he didn't rape them. In the south at that time, many women married at a very young age, my mom married at 15. My parents had a very happy marriage and my father treated her like a queen. I heard only one argument in 18 years (when I got married). My best memory of their marriage was that every day when my father came home from work he would always put his arms around her and hold her. I remember always hearing him say "I love you Hon."
The hand writing analysis will have the same effect as asking O.J. to try on the glove.
Why do you say that? Not the same thing. They can determine the age of the ink, as well as spot the so obvious differences in the yearbook "signature" and Roy Moore's real signature.
I think the fact that Gloria Allred refuses to immediately release the yearbook for examination is telling.
From the article: “She remembers darting into Sugar and Spice, the children's clothing store her aunt owned in the mall, when her group saw Moore coming.”
Poor thing, didn’t she realize that store was EXACTLY where Roy Moore would go?
Oh, please! This woman is not believable. So, Roy Moore was hanging out at the mall? Give me a break. And why would these kids be hanging out at the mall? That's where they went "for socialization?" The mall?
Why do you say that? Not the same thing. They can determine the age of the ink, as well as spot the so obvious differences in the yearbook "signature" and Roy Moore's real signature.
I think the fact that Gloria Allred refuses to immediately release the yearbook for examination is telling.
Because this is his lawyers big definitive proof that Moore is not a molester of young girls. It will fall flat just like putting the glove on O.J. failed. Now Moore's whole case rest on a single piece of evidence. He will not only be proven a molester of young girls but a liar as well if the the analysis fails to prove he is being framed. A peculiarly dumb move by his lawyer, but I don't think any lawyer who is concerned about his future would take Moore's case.
Well,well,well, given the recent reports about new "offenders" it looks like the movies and elected office are just chock full of sex offenders.
Somehow I get the feeling Moore is just one of the beginning many to come...
Looks like Al Franken is next, unless the media de-emphasizes his wrongdoings. See "I’m a feminist. I study rape culture. And I don’t want Al Franken to resign" on the double-standard. And in case this is viewed as thread drift I opened a thread, which was merged into this one, on the recent blizzard of abuse allegations.
Of course the underlying problem in Washington is that we can't expect human beings, without their families around, to be monks. But that's not open for discussion.
Those two signatures are as different as day and night. You didn't look very closely. Look at the "y" in "Roy." One has a big loop that ends below the base line. In his signature, there is no loop at all, and the upstroke extends up and forms what looks like the "S" of his middle initial. There are other huge differences as significant as this as well.
As has been pointed out before, as well; how did his assistants initials wind up in the girls yearbook?
No, they're not. The biggest difference in the 2 signatures is, over time, Moore began signing his full name, including the capital letter S in his signature. When he was a D.A. he didn't use the middle initial.
This addition changed the lower case y, as the S became a flourish upward. I'm sure if there was another, more recent, sample without his middle initial, the y would end in a similar downward flourish loop just like the 1977 signature.
More telling is the way the lower case letters all rise in his signature when there's no line on the paper. The rise is throughout on both, in longhand and in print.
The printed lower case e in the yearbook is a 2-stroke affectation. In the 70s, Moore probably saw it and began to use it because it caught his eye, but over the years, he abandoned it because of the speed it takes to draw 2 strokes. His later e is a single stroke, faster and more natural to his hand, and as a judge, he probably needed to write more, so speed became a factor. And he dropped the affectation.
It's the only letter that changed substantially. Everything else in the 2 signatures can be attributed to time and the differences in the occasions when the signatures were written. The form was likely written sitting at a desk, while the yearbook was probably signed holding it and standing.
A person's choice of a pen also affects their signature. A pencil, Sharpie, a ballpoint, a roller ball, and a fountain pen all have much different sensations when using them, and each changes the hand's response to those sensations. Each also leaves it's own traces on the paper that informs what kind of pen they are.
Moore obviously favors one type of pen, and probably one particular brand. He's been using them for a long, long time.
As I said earlier, the most remarkable thing is how they are so similar over a 40 year time span, especially given the differences of the signings.
I never got into any of the psychological aspects in handwriting analysis. I studied only the strokes and how they are formed by hand motions, as my interest was in forgery and how forgers do the work.
Every forger except for the most expert all have "tells" in their forged signatures.
A tell is a pause, a slight shakiness in a stroke, and many other small details. This is because a forger is imitating someone else's natural motions that are not his own. He's has to think intently while writing, while a real signature comes natural to the person and doesn't have much thought.
There's always a smooth confidence in a person's natural signature. It's never seen in a forgery.
A forger's signature always shows this stuff. It's much more obvious in an amateur forgery.
So, you tell me.
Did that lady dig up her old yearbook, go out and find a professional forger to fake his signature before she showed the yearbook? In less than a week's time?
How many expert professional forgers do you know?
What's the likelihood that a professional forger, the most secretive criminals of all, would expose himself to the lady by agreeing to sign a yearbook?
It's a serious crime, so they don't do it as a favor, nor do they do it for strangers. Just try to find one sometime. They don't advertise their profession.
And no amateur could ever fake a signature that well. It takes decades of serious practice to do fakery of such high quality.
Both signatures are genuine. You should not be supporting this man. He's a short eyes.
I agree with you BJMIKE except for this part. " yearbook was probably signed holding it and standing."
I don't like any assumptions. Restaurants are sit down places. I would suspect that standing and signing could have a great affect on the signature. The victim can clarify that.
No, they're not. The biggest difference in the 2 signatures is, over time, Moore began signing his full name, including the capital letter S in his signature. When he was a D.A. he didn't use the middle initial.
And you know this because ...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike
This addition changed the lower case y, as the S became a flourish upward. I'm sure if there was another, more recent, sample without his middle initial, the y would end in a similar downward flourish loop just like the 1977 signature.
More telling is the way the lower case letters all rise in his signature when there's no line on the paper. The rise is throughout on both, in longhand and in print.
The printed lower case e in the yearbook is a 2-stroke affectation. In the 70s, Moore probably saw it and began to use it because it caught his eye, but over the years, he abandoned it because of the speed it takes to draw 2 strokes. His later e is a single stroke, faster and more natural to his hand, and as a judge, he probably needed to write more, so speed became a factor. And he dropped the affectation.
It's the only letter that changed substantially. Everything else in the 2 signatures can be attributed to time and the differences in the occasions when the signatures were written. The form was likely written sitting at a desk, while the yearbook was probably signed holding it and standing.
A person's choice of a pen also affects their signature. A pencil, Sharpie, a ballpoint, a roller ball, and a fountain pen all have much different sensations when using them, and each changes the hand's response to those sensations. Each also leaves it's own traces on the paper that informs what kind of pen they are.
Moore obviously favors one type of pen, and probably one particular brand. He's been using them for a long, long time.
As I said earlier, the most remarkable thing is how they are so similar over a 40 year time span, especially given the differences of the signings.
I never got into any of the psychological aspects in handwriting analysis. I studied only the strokes and how they are formed by hand motions, as my interest was in forgery and how forgers do the work.
Every forger except for the most expert all have "tells" in their forged signatures.
A tell is a pause, a slight shakiness in a stroke, and many other small details. This is because a forger is imitating someone else's natural motions that are not his own. He's has to think intently while writing, while a real signature comes natural to the person and doesn't have much thought.
There's always a smooth confidence in a person's natural signature. It's never seen in a forgery.
A forger's signature always shows this stuff. It's much more obvious in an amateur forgery.
So, you tell me.
Did that lady dig up her old yearbook, go out and find a professional forger to fake his signature before she showed the yearbook? In less than a week's time?
How many expert professional forgers do you know?
What's the likelihood that a professional forger, the most secretive criminals of all, would expose himself to the lady by agreeing to sign a yearbook?
It's a serious crime, so they don't do it as a favor, nor do they do it for strangers. Just try to find one sometime. They don't advertise their profession.
And no amateur could ever fake a signature that well. It takes decades of serious practice to do fakery of such high quality.
Both signatures are genuine. You should not be supporting this man. He's a short eyes.
So, you're a handwriting expert and analyst now?
I think you're full of beans. You're stretching. And that piece of fakery is of poor quality. And you still didn't explain how his assistant's initials, "D.A." wound up in the yearbook.
As far as Im concerned this Blizzard of accusations is a diversion. A diversion from dealing with the massive problems, this pitiful nation refuses to deal with. The media is the culprit and the instigator. Why I don't know but I have my suspicions. Every day someone Is accused of this type crime, the past month or so. Something that happened years ago. Ray Moore being one who happens to be running for office . President Bush in a wheel chair is also being mentioned. Where does this end. Just accuse someone and ruin his career.
My view is these daily accusations being the headlines of news broadcast is inappropriate. Especially the going into detail. A daily Witch Hunt is a symptom of much more than harrassment charges. Handle charges thru the legal system,and if it impacts their career. Then so be it. The media needs to do its job, and cover news impacting our life in this country. The constant Natl Enquirer type reporting on, who touched who 30 years ago is beyond unprofessional.
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