GOP Senate Tax Bill Removes State and Local Income Taxes as a Deduction

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by cheyenne2134

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...rticle/361668/

Another part of the explanation is easier to discern. The reddest states on that map at the top—Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, New Mexico, Maine—have exceptionally high poverty rates and thus receive disproportionately large shares of federal dollars.

yes Mississippi the VERY POOREST STATE...gets a lot of money...also the worst education in the country too


but the fact remains that California GETS MORE FEDERAL MONEY, than it PAYS INTO THE FEDERAL offers

to many forget all the money of the following:




if you look at all the federal money that goes to California...it is way more than what cali pays in taxes


what most don't count:

all your national guard troops and facilities.....paid for by the federal government

all the military bases (32 of them), and the 40 thousand federal troops....paid for by the federal government.......and all those Soldiers, Marines, Airmen and Sailors who work there...spend FEDERAL MONEY IN CALIFORNIA

all the defense contractors.... (55 billion worth)

the 28 national parks, and its federal employees (which you receive federal monies for)

36 national natural landmarks (for which you receive federal money for upkeep)....

145 national historic landmarks(for which you receive federal money for upkeep...

9 wild and scenic rivers...managed and paid by the national parks service....paid for by the federal government



******45% of all California LAND IS FEDERAL OWNED******... 45 million acres are federally owned...in otherwords California owns just over half of its self

then there is the money Cali OWES the federal government....California borrowed $10 billion from the federal government to shore up its recession-battered Unemployment Insurance Fund. Even though the state’s economy is now booming, it still owes the feds about $8 billion.
California is paying interest on the loan, an estimated $174.5 million this year, according to a new report from the state Employment Development Department, and the balance is shrinking only because in lieu of direct payments, the Department of Labor has raised taxes on employers.

not to mention all the 'other' federal agencies that have FEDERAL employees in California....200,000 FEDERAL employees (most making atleast 60k)... you lose all that FEDERAL incomes and revenue that the FEDERAL government GIVES your state...these employees SPEND money in your state


then look at all the FEDERAL money going to secondary schools:

BS USC-Berkeley --$370 million in funding from the federal government

USC- Los Angeles-- $250 million in 2016

UCLA and its two sister campus' get 9 billion in federal funds annually
.....$3 billion in research grants. Nearly four-fifths of the funds are awarded by the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation. UC is the nation’s largest recipient of federal funding for research and related projects, with UC San Francisco, UC San Diego and UCLA receiving the largest grants.
.....$3.5 billion to UC medical centers for Medicare and Medicaid patients.
.....$1.6 billion in financial aid to UC students for federal Pell Grants, work-study awards, graduate fellowships and other grants and scholarships.
.....$800 million to operate the federal Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.
UCLA’s budget is approximately $6.7 billion. State funding accounts for only six percent of total revenues
About 39 percent of undergraduates receive Pell Grants, federal aid

University of California, San Diego....Total federal R&D grant money 2016 : $637 million
Stanford University........................ Total federal R&D grant money 2016 : $656 million....Stanford took in nearly $72 million from the Department of Defense and $445 million from HHS

45.8% of California land is FEDERAL OWNED
nearly half of cali is federal owned....hmmm https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_land_ownership_by_state


when you look at federal money going to California...they get BILLIONS more, than they pay into the federal coffers


plus cali still owes the feds for a 20 billion loan it got
California borrowed $20 billion from the federal government to shore up its recession-battered Unemployment Insurance Fund. Even though the state’s economy is now booming, it still owes the feds about $9 billion.
California is paying interest on the loan, an estimated $174.5 million this year, according to a new report from the state Employment Development Department, and the balance is shrinking only because in lieu of direct payments, the Department of Labor has raised taxes on employers.



oh and to welfare.......

top 11 states per capita of welfare 2016

1. DISTRICT OF Columbia (wash DC)
2. Mississippi
3. California...34% of the NATIONS welfare recipients live in Cali
4. Rhode Island
5 West Virginia
6. Oregon
7. Tenn
8. New Mexico
9. Maine
10. Alaska
11. New York

7 out of 11 of the top welfare states are considered to be blue

[cheyenne2134]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

yes Mississippi the VERY POOREST STATE...gets a lot of money...also the worst education in the country too


but the fact remains that California GETS MORE FEDERAL MONEY, than it PAYS INTO THE FEDERAL offers

to many forget all the money of the following:




if you look at all the federal money that goes to California...it is way more than what cali pays in taxes


what most don't count:

all your national guard troops and facilities.....paid for by the federal government

all the military bases (32 of them), and the 40 thousand federal troops....paid for by the federal government.......and all those Soldiers, Marines, Airmen and Sailors who work there...spend FEDERAL MONEY IN CALIFORNIA

all the defense contractors.... (55 billion worth)

the 28 national parks, and its federal employees (which you receive federal monies for)

36 national natural landmarks (for which you receive federal money for upkeep)....

145 national historic landmarks(for which you receive federal money for upkeep...

9 wild and scenic rivers...managed and paid by the national parks service....paid for by the federal government



******45% of all California LAND IS FEDERAL OWNED******... 45 million acres are federally owned...in otherwords California owns just over half of its self

then there is the money Cali OWES the federal government....California borrowed $10 billion from the federal government to shore up its recession-battered Unemployment Insurance Fund. Even though the state’s economy is now booming, it still owes the feds about $8 billion.
California is paying interest on the loan, an estimated $174.5 million this year, according to a new report from the state Employment Development Department, and the balance is shrinking only because in lieu of direct payments, the Department of Labor has raised taxes on employers.

not to mention all the 'other' federal agencies that have FEDERAL employees in California....200,000 FEDERAL employees (most making atleast 60k)... you lose all that FEDERAL incomes and revenue that the FEDERAL government GIVES your state...these employees SPEND money in your state


then look at all the FEDERAL money going to secondary schools:

BS USC-Berkeley --$370 million in funding from the federal government

USC- Los Angeles-- $250 million in 2016

UCLA and its two sister campus' get 9 billion in federal funds annually
.....$3 billion in research grants. Nearly four-fifths of the funds are awarded by the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation. UC is the nation’s largest recipient of federal funding for research and related projects, with UC San Francisco, UC San Diego and UCLA receiving the largest grants.
.....$3.5 billion to UC medical centers for Medicare and Medicaid patients.
.....$1.6 billion in financial aid to UC students for federal Pell Grants, work-study awards, graduate fellowships and other grants and scholarships.
.....$800 million to operate the federal Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.
UCLA’s budget is approximately $6.7 billion. State funding accounts for only six percent of total revenues
About 39 percent of undergraduates receive Pell Grants, federal aid

University of California, San Diego....Total federal R&D grant money 2016 : $637 million
Stanford University........................ Total federal R&D grant money 2016 : $656 million....Stanford took in nearly $72 million from the Department of Defense and $445 million from HHS

45.8% of California land is FEDERAL OWNED
nearly half of cali is federal owned....hmmm https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_land_ownership_by_state


when you look at federal money going to California...they get BILLIONS more, than they pay into the federal coffers


plus cali still owes the feds for a 20 billion loan it got
California borrowed $20 billion from the federal government to shore up its recession-battered Unemployment Insurance Fund. Even though the state’s economy is now booming, it still owes the feds about $9 billion.
California is paying interest on the loan, an estimated $174.5 million this year, according to a new report from the state Employment Development Department, and the balance is shrinking only because in lieu of direct payments, the Department of Labor has raised taxes on employers.



oh and to welfare.......

top 11 states per capita of welfare 2016

1. DISTRICT OF Columbia (wash DC)
2. Mississippi
3. California...34% of the NATIONS welfare recipients live in Cali
4. Rhode Island
5 West Virginia
6. Oregon
7. Tenn
8. New Mexico
9. Maine
10. Alaska
11. New York

7 out of 11 of the top welfare states are considered to be blue

Well you do know California and New York have the LARGEST populations than any other states? So of course the percentage of welfare recipients will be higher. People go where the jobs are, even the poor. With that in mind, the welfare recipients aren’t getting these tax breaks. The people that are working individuals paying high taxes aka the middle class are getting back less than other states in federal dollars. The middle class will once again be screwed in high property tax states.

I suggest you read the article I posted in terms of how much a taxpayer in each state get back in federal dollars. Most of the states you listed as proposed “welfare states” still pay more federa taxes and get back less than other states

I am talking about the individual tax payer, not those in welfare or extremely low income

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

What I asked was how you can justify paying more federal income tax than someone in California making the exact same thing you do?

Originally Posted by thecoalman

If you live in high tax state why should you be paying less federal income tax than someone in low tax state. If they remove these deduction you aren't paying higher taxes because of federal tax code, you are paying higher taxes because of your states tax code.

I think the justification is that you're paying more in taxes. The idea behind a progressive income tax is that as income goes up, so do the relative ability to pay (i.e. based on marginal utility). This is a reasonable assumption in regions with the same cost of living, but breaks down badly when one compares areas with different costs of living. The federal system still treats someone that lives in San Francisco the same way as someone who lives in Jackson, Mississippi, even though the cost of living is about half there. You hear the same arguments in reverse when people take about a federal $15 minimum wage--something that makes sense in San Francisco but is crazy in rural parts of the country.

If you wanted to really be 'fair' in the sense that you're referencing, the progressive federal tax structure would be modified by the local cost of living and would not include deduction for state or local taxes. Federal benefits tend to be uniform regardless of state, while higher cost-of-living areas tend to generate more revenue owing to higher wages and capital appreciation. This is the real reason why 'blue' states tend to be net contributors and 'red' states tend to be net beneficiaries.

Now you may not agree with this, but it's certainly a justification for why people in high cost of living states might be justified in paying lower taxes.

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Business's do not pay tax, they collect them from the consumer in the price of their product. You will pay these taxes one way or the other.

Then why do businesses always oppose business tax hikes? Probably because consumers pay part of the taxes and the rest actually result in lower profit. Increasing taxes decreases profits.

[okcthunder1945]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

The problems with these "studies" is they are using a very basic number without accounting for many of the variables as to why that might be. For example NM always tops these lists by a huge margin. Sandia and Los Alamos by themselves add approximately $2600 in per capita federal spending there.

As another example I-80 which runs from SF to NYC has it's longest section going through Nebraska, the conga line of trucks traveling through Nebraska would actually be a drain on their tax dollars.

As another example here in PA a lot of the companies drilling gas are from Texas, the taxes they and their employees pay from Texas are attributed to Texas.

As another example the state of Florida has a lot of retirees move there....

This is the tip of the iceberg, this would be a very complex calculation and you would need to account for these an many other things. As I said it may be impossibly complex.

It's not a black and white but there's a clearly quite a few states that are under-taxing themselves. We could go back and forth providing examples, but there is clearly a pattern of low tax states receiving a disproportionate amount of fed money.

[cb2008]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

If you live in high tax state why should you be paying less federal income tax than someone in low tax state. If they remove these deduction you aren't paying higher taxes because of federal tax code, you are paying higher taxes because of your states tax code.

Business's do not pay tax, they collect them from the consumer in the price of their product. You will pay these taxes one way or the other.

BS and more BS. Business love our state because of the resources - skilled labor, great quality of life to offer potential recruits, universities and tech start ups. Those resources are not cheap they are paid for with our taxes. They get huge tax credits ( with our tax dollars) when they move in, create jobs, and sometimes they fail, but still walk away with the cuts. Often they succeed and that is why they come.
On the other hand my fed tax dollars go towards building infrastructure in your low tax state or to bail you out of hurricane disasters. And we are glad to do it because we believe in a strong America.